The MSI Neo2 Platinum Owners Help Thread

Can't answer all of your questions, Fat Rakoon, but I can explain some of the differences you are seeing with Disk Mark, SuperPi, 3DMark, etc. When you are changeing the bus speed this is having more of an effect on the whole system than just changing the multiplier. This is exactly why using multiple benchmark programs lets you get a much better picture of your Overclock than just checking a 3DMArk score. :)

250x9.5 is going to make the overall system faster than a 230x10. Now I am going to go and get all the terms wrong here, so I can't be too specific. :) But basically the faster you are running the system bus, the faster everything else on the motherboard is getting it's data to process. Whereas the multiplier will more directly effect the CPU speed.

I don't see anything saying you have locked your memory at 200, so this means everything that is needing some form of memory access is going to be sped up at 250 instead of 230. Faster the memory can be run, the faster the data can be churned through it.

Though there is a point when you can run memory too fast and start knocking out errors. This will be at the edge of the memory overclock. This is where tweaking all those memory timings will gain most benefit. Increasing the CAS/tRCD/tRAS/rRP as you are allow the high FSB to produce less errors in the memory. Kinda like slowing it down to handle your faster requests.

Now 3DMark coming out with a lower score, but higher FPS at 230x10 instead of 250x9.5 is an odd one. Though this is going to be because of the combination of tests within 3DMark. Compare all the different tests and you will see areas where your higher FSB is a boost, and other places you will see areas where the overall CPU speed has more of an effect.

I remember tuning my old Socket A T-Bird. I used SisSoft Sandra to check what was happening as I tighten the memory timings. Even though 3DMark wasn't always showing a difference, Sandra whould show in detail when I had pushed my memory too hard and caused it all to slow down again.


Another thing to reassure you of is the 32-bit Socket A Barton vs 64-bit A64 Winchester. You are now comparing two different types of processor design running on two different chipsets with different memory. Also remember that this 64-bit processor was designed first for 64-bit calculations, then they would have made sure it could also handle 32-bit. Get yourself a 64-bit copy of XP and a 64-bit copy of SuperPI. Then I would expect you will see a big advantage of the A64.

As I said, I ain't no expert. But you are comparing two very similar systems with Barton vs Winchester. Though the Socket A has been around long enough to be tuned completely to the mature 32-bit OS. Wheras that A64 is still a relitvly new platform and hardly any of us are using the OS yet.

Overall, all of your benchmarks are pretty close, percentage wise. What does the overall system feel like? Don't give up on your A64 yet. Especially not until you get your hands on a 64-bit OS, and all the drivers etc have matured on that 64-bit platform. Then I believe we will see more benefit. :) I remember the 16-bit to 32-bit leap using a Pentium Pro. Comparing the mainly 16-bit Win95 to 32-bit NT 4.0 on the same multi-boot PC was very noticable. (Though that will also be due to the crappily writen Win95...)


Whoops... quite a waffle. :) Hopefully some sense can be made out of it. Main thing is to start looking into how your computer actually works. Research the internals a bit to understand better how your overclocking affects things. Find out what those numbers really mean.
 
MAllen said:
Can't answer all of your questions, Fat Rakoon, but I can explain some of the differences you are seeing with Disk Mark, SuperPi, 3DMark, etc. When you are changeing the bus speed this is having more of an effect on the whole system than just changing the multiplier. This is exactly why using multiple benchmark programs lets you get a much better picture of your Overclock than just checking a 3DMArk score. :)

Oh yes, I know that many Benches give many different results and I never have relied too much on one benchmark or another... Maybe some are ok when comparing one PC and you are tweaking it, getting higher scores does mean that its because the PC is that bit faster, but overall, I also know that they can mean jack.

I have used Performance test 4 to get an all-round score, purely because I have a saved baseline here from InsanCen's XP17 that this Winchester even at 260FSB just cannot even come close to it, and thats somehting I have wanted to do for so long now... He has done some seriously good tweaks to his PC, and in all honesty, It is quite simply the fastest system ( REAL-USE, not just benchmarks ) I have ever seen... Absolutely stonks over a 4Ghz P4 at absolutely everything... Amazing. All I want is to stomp that and I will be happy, but even with the 64Bit running a 260FSB simply isnt close!




MAllen said:
250x9.5 is going to make the overall system faster than a 230x10. Now I am going to go and get all the terms wrong here, so I can't be too specific. :) But basically the faster you are running the system bus, the faster everything else on the motherboard is getting it's data to process. Whereas the multiplier will more directly effect the CPU speed.

Oh yes, it definitely is, I wont argue that one. I have developed an issue however, where even though things are faster, the responce in for example, going between Apps windows ( going from OE to a WebPage, then hiding everything and then bringing up OE again, is very slow )... I know that Multi is mainly CPU based and Bus is the whole schebang... I do know that, which is why 200x10 is faster 100x20... Its the way it is, and I can accept that.



MAllen said:
I don't see anything saying you have locked your memory at 200, so this means everything that is needing some form of memory access is going to be sped up at 250 instead of 230. Faster the memory can be run, the faster the data can be churned through it.

No, I did try locking it. I tried at 100, 133, 166, and 200 and they all had issues, so, I stuck it on AUTO and it clocks fine now??? - Go figure?

Also, even though the CPU is at 260, According to CPUZ, my RAM is at 247?

Fine, ifthats the case, then that may be why it has a slight lag in many things... Not sync'ed maybe?

Also if the RAM is only 247 when the CPU is at 260, then if the RAM is good for 285 on stock volts, then surely in theory at least, I could be looking towards the 300FSB mark on the CPU??? ( Hey, let me dream )

Seriously now, the CPU is 260FSB and the RAM is at 247 ?




MAllen said:
Though there is a point when you can run memory too fast and start knocking out errors. This will be at the edge of the memory overclock. This is where tweaking all those memory timings will gain most benefit. Increasing the CAS/tRCD/tRAS/rRP as you are allow the high FSB to produce less errors in the memory. Kinda like slowing it down to handle your faster requests.

The RAM speed is at 2.5-4-8-4

Anything other than this, causes errors, it seems to be rock solid at these, so who am I to argue? - Even if they are a little slow... Even at 200FSB I tried 2.5-3-8-3 and it would suddenly slow to a crawl and then hang after a few minutes of use???


MAllen said:
Now 3DMark coming out with a lower score, but higher FPS at 230x10 instead of 250x9.5 is an odd one. Though this is going to be because of the combination of tests within 3DMark. Compare all the different tests and you will see areas where your higher FSB is a boost, and other places you will see areas where the overall CPU speed has more of an effect.

Yes, tell me about it. Its not really lower as such, they are hovering at about the same speeds in the final score, but like I said, the Frame rate was 200 or so with a 200 FSB, 300 or so with a 230 FSB and I saw 400+ as it is now, so going from a Frame rate of 200 to a frame rate of 400, I pretty much expected the final score to double, or at least take abig boost... I got NADA, ZILCH...A BIG FAT ZERO increase!!! This, I cannot understand at all.



MAllen said:
Even though 3DMark wasn't always showing a difference, Sandra whould show in detail when I had pushed my memory too hard and caused it all to slow down again.

Not used SISOFT fora while... I will DL and install it later





MAllen said:
Another thing to reassure you of is the 32-bit Socket A Barton vs 64-bit A64 Winchester. You are now comparing two different types of processor design running on two different chipsets with different memory. Also remember that this 64-bit processor was designed first for 64-bit calculations, then they would have made sure it could also handle 32-bit. Get yourself a 64-bit copy of XP and a 64-bit copy of SuperPI. Then I would expect you will see a big advantage of the A64.

As I said, I ain't no expert. But you are comparing two very similar systems with Barton vs Winchester. Though the Socket A has been around long enough to be tuned completely to the mature 32-bit OS. Wheras that A64 is still a relitvly new platform and hardly any of us are using the OS yet.

Yes, I need to accept that. I have got the Trial of XP64, and sure enough, I have seen a fairly useable boost. Unfortunately, I could not really give it a fair run because of many reasons, all driver related...

My C: and 3 DVDs are on the Mobo IDE Line, this was fine
My D:, E: and F: are on an IDE Card, that has no 64Bit Drivers
My Modem is USB BT Voyager 100 thingy that.... Has no drivers

Hell, even the Mobo drivers on the CD wont go in for XP64, as you should know.

So, the only support I had, was what I could get off the CD.

But I digress... From what I saw for that small time, even though it wasa nice fresh install, it did feel like it had an edge of speed that XP32 didnt give me, so yes, I certainly do think that XP64 runs the 64Bit CPU much better than XP32.

Can you get SuperPI for 64Bit? Ok, I will have a look in a bit. Cheers.






MAllen said:
Overall, all of your benchmarks are pretty close, percentage wise. What does the overall system feel like? Don't give up on your A64 yet. Especially not until you get your hands on a 64-bit OS, and all the drivers etc have matured on that 64-bit platform. Then I believe we will see more benefit. :) I remember the 16-bit to 32-bit leap using a Pentium Pro. Comparing the mainly 16-bit Win95 to 32-bit NT 4.0 on the same multi-boot PC was very noticable. (Though that will also be due to the crappily writen Win95...)

I remember that too... We are once again at a transision stage or 32-64 and so its that time when weare trying to push new in and old out, or are forced to by our peers.

Change does not necessarily mean its a good one though!



MAllen said:
Whoops... quite a waffle. :) Hopefully some sense can be made out of it. Main thing is to start looking into how your computer actually works. Research the internals a bit to understand better how your overclocking affects things. Find out what those numbers really mean.

Waffle? You will never see me waffling on :rolleyes:

Yes, I do agree... his is my first 64Bit, I was under the impression of so much more though? Games are vastly improved on, but generaluse, its not really all that much better at all, and so I have I suppose judged it too harshly, and not considered the surrounding issues that I myself need to iron out.

I am learning more and more every few minutes now with this PC, and I need to acceot that its a totally new architecture... Just like it was when I moved to Socket A, the same as it was when I moved to Socket 7 ... Blah-de-blah.

Listen mate... Thansk for the support and criticisms etc... They all help.

I am nearing the end of my possible OC on this box perhaps, and I know there is still plenty to go, but I am at my personal limit here now... I will tune it a tad more, or perhaps I will knock it back on the clock speeds, and try to tweak it rather than clock it now... I have seen it all too often where you have massive clock speeds, but no real performance, and low clocks, but seriously tuned bits, and I think mybits are pretty poor performers as they are, so I will look for the less obvious stuff now and see where I get that way for a bit.

At *** end of the day, I have had the PC 10 minutes, and there is no real need to push it this hard when its still a virgin really is there?

After all, I still got the other PCs for clocking if I wanted the balls out speed
 
Gangster

Joined: Nov 2003
Location: staffs
Posts: 277

msi o/c
Hi got my mates pc at the mo and he is running:-
winnie 3500 , unbranded 3200 value ram x800xtpe card
just a few questions.......
whats the best memory to put in this board?
whats the best way to o/c the chip......
all I have done at the mo is
set the memory clk speed to 166
ht to 4 and set the cpu fsb to 220
runs ok at this but but before I go any more just wanted to know if I was doing this right
I gust want some quality memory (corsair 4400 xms maybe)

thanks anyway

i know i have posted this outside this forum so iam sorry about that...............
 
Fluffy Bunny said:
Gangster

Joined: Nov 2003
Location: staffs
Posts: 277

msi o/c
Hi got my mates pc at the mo and he is running:-
winnie 3500 , unbranded 3200 value ram x800xtpe card
just a few questions.......
whats the best memory to put in this board?
whats the best way to o/c the chip......
all I have done at the mo is
set the memory clk speed to 166
ht to 4 and set the cpu fsb to 220
runs ok at this but but before I go any more just wanted to know if I was doing this right
I gust want some quality memory (corsair 4400 xms maybe)

thanks anyway

i know i have posted this outside this forum so iam sorry about that...............


I got XMS4400 RAM in mine... Its loving the RAM, but it seems fussy about me trying to alter its timings. I seem to be stuck at 2.5-4-8-4, but so far ,I have hit 289FSB... Running at 250 right now however, because higher than that, I get some slowdowns that I have not yet pinpointed... I get much faster CPU speeds, but other things start to lsow down, like moving between multiple apps etc can take yonks, but at 250FSB it seems to be a sweet spot.

Having a few alternative issues that I am asking too, so thats a frsh post not this one.
 
Dynamic overclocking?

Ok, I have set my FSB to 260 and Multiplier to 9.5, RAM is at 1T 2.5-4-8-4 stock volts, CPU Volts are 1.4... HT is 3x

Now, just now ,I had a look at the settings, and CPUZ reported that the RAM FSB was 247 and the CPU was running at 2.2???

I restarted and checked my BIOS settings, and they were at 260x9.5- Ram etc were no different to the above, and when I went back into Windows, sure enough, CPU ( Well, HTT is at 260, RAM at 247, and everythign is is it should be )

Now, why the hell did it clock itself down?

I have made sure that there is no dynamic clocking at all, and so why?

Confused?
 
UPDATE

I am right this minute running 290x9

So, I have acheived my target of 2.6Ghz.

Its still a bit poor compared to the barton for going in and out of lots of apps all the time, and I stillhave a few too many, too long pauses when starting apps up, but games and 3D Demos etc are just flying!

For serious use, I have decided that the Barton in the NF7S is a far superior system, and as of about 2 hours ago, I moved it back into my living room as my main PC, and this bugger is now upstairs in the LAN room as my main games machine.

If I cure the problem of it being so slow going between apps, then that will of course change back again, because itstill cannot come close to running as much stuff at once as the barton can do.

I seriously think that this must be down to one tiny little thing, but I simply cannot pin-point what?

Also, until I can beat InsanCen's XP17 bench scores, Iw ill never rest, so I will be permanently attempting this and that tweak over time anyway...

Thats it.

I would like to publicly thank everyone who has been EMailing me advise, Especally CB666 & Craig ( The guys who sold me the bits in the first place )... Cheers all.

Without your help, I would have throw the bloody thing in the bin.
 
Thanks sherlock. ;)

What could it be?


RAM is a little slo I think at 2.5-4-4-8 but surely not THAT slow?

The RAM on the Barton is 2-3-3-11.

Any chance of you EMailng me your BIOS settings then?

This thing, while a killer at games and 3D, is quite honestly useless in Windows, and only slows down to acrawl whe nyou have for example 3 or 4 Apps open at any one time...

Oh, and here is one for you...

I have just converted a video file of my cat on the Camera to VCD, it took the winchester 17minutes and 41Seconds... I used CUCUSOFT

I copied the very same file upstairs onto the barton, and converted it again with CUCUSOFT and it took 12Minutes and 38 Seconds.

Yet games have shot up at least 20%

I really cannot fathom it out? It should not be like this at all?
 
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Can you try swapping the RAM from your Barton and trying it out with the Winchester?

Video conversion is surprising. A 40% difference is quite large!! What are the hard drives in your two systems? Video conversion is going to rely on the speed of those two drives, so which box has the faster one?

It's good to see the games improving. At least it means it runs your graphics system better. :)
 
ok guys i set my sata h/d up as main boot it shows with nvidea s/w driver as running at sata but i had to go back to normal windows driver which now shows ultra dma 6 is this right

also in bios i just get option to boot from hard drive
everything is seen ok though just wondering if i am getting proper speeds

shows in bios as 3rd ide

using a slipstreamed service pack 2 disc

cheers
 
AFAIK - the XP SP2 CD has the SATA drivers built in. So this is why the floppy was not needed.

And SATA is still a type of IDE. "Old" IDE is often called PATA to keep things confusing.

I assume as the BIOS says your drive is "3rd IDE", this means you are attached to SATA port number 3?

The above is logical guess work as my system is SCSI. In the BIOS my boot order is also "Hard Disk", even though my drive is attached to a PCI card.


Basically, if your PC works. Don't worry about it. :) Though installing the nVidia SATA drivers shouldn't harm things. Do this through Device Manager. This may then allow the OS to better identify the drives for you.
 
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When I bought the AMD64, I swapped the Mobo & CPU over... The RAM was from the Barton originally at first, this is the Corsair XMS3500. On seeing it run badly, I assumed it was the RAM, and so I bought the 4400... At 200FSB, the 3500 can be tweaked and is much, much faster, but the 440 goes much higher. I have hit 298 withotu overvolting the RAM at all, so thats cool... I am now at 260FSB x 10 the RAM is stock volts the CPU however, is at 1.5v, and I am a little annoyed because the CPU temps seem to still be hoverign at 32c idle, and although it shoots up to 40-44 very quickly under minimal load, I am starting to think that the numbers are wrong because its crashing like hell now... Its probably hitting 70c rather than 40c.

So, the HDs at first were the same too! - like I said its a Mobo & PU swap only, the drives are those from the barton originally...

The drives in the AMD64 are:-

C: Maxtor 40GB ( 6GB is C: the rest is T: )
D: Maxtor 80GB
E: Maxtor 160GB
F: Maxtor 40GB

Swapfile is spread over C:-F: with 512MB each ( I am not going to argue of whether thats good or bad, its what all my systems have )

Barton is currently:-

Maxtor 40GB IDE = C:
Seagate 80GB SATA = D:
Western Digital PATA via Serillel = E: 60GB & F:16GB

Swapfile as above, like I said.

Hey mallen... I got the Freezer64 the other day, but since getting it, NONE of my fan headers read the fan speeds anymore?

I have now sold off the original FX55 Cooler, and so gettign it replaced is turning out to be a chore and will also mean that I will have to be without the AMD64 for a couple of weeks, which is a bitch.
 
So you have already played with the memory....

Hard drives. The manufcaturer and size doesn't mean much. It is the models and actual specs of the drives. Seek times, rpm, cache sizes, etc. All can make a large difference. Maxtor/Seagate/WD will all make a range of drives from cheap to expensive. And there will be a noticable difference in that range. Goto the websites and get some spec sheets to compare drives.

Swapfile. I am not going to argue as it is all a personal preference. :) Many ideas in all kinds of ways on this. With my system I put my swapfile on the front of the first partition of my second hard drive. Minimum of 1024, max of 2048. Currently 200MB in use (Opera greedly gobbling 80MB+). I based my size on a game of Operation Flashpoint, heavily ladden with addons. Though I expect BF2 will also hammer into that swap. Using Task Manager's Performance tab as a rough guide.

I use my secondary hard drive as this can be accessed independently from the system and games drive. During the loading of a level in Half Life, the game file can be loaded from one drive, while the swap is busy churning away on the other drive. Allowing parallel use. My secondary drive is just as fast as the first. And I would never use an "old" or slow drive for swap as that defeats the point of a page file being stored in fast secondary storage.

My Freezer64 if fine. No problems with any RPM readings from other fans.
 
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Yes, my HDs are alwasys usd like this:-

C: = Windows, some system tools like AV, Spybots, and system mechanic etc
D: = Apps & Games
E: = Media
F: = Downloads and misc junk

I have NOTHING installed to C:, and to be honest, I find 4GB perfectly adequate for my C:, as long as I keep the temp files etc cleaned out every so often... I have never gone over this, and in fact right now, its 5.75GB in size, and I have 3.42GB free on it

I also have my 3 DVD Writers too, and previously, on the barton with the NF&s Mobo, I was perfectly able to write 3 DVDs, one CD, defrag C: and play FarCry without getting a single hitch! - On this AMD, I have not been able to burn 3 CDs without them hanging on the verify... Not once have I managed that yet... Best I can do, is 2 at a time... This system is the pits compared to the barton for real work, but yes, games are running so sweet now.

As for the Freezer64, I am a little disappointed with it to be honest.

I have dropped a couple of C for sure, but I miss the way the FX55 Cooler sped up and you heard it do so... It was very comfoting.
 
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mallen thanks for the reply

when u say i can install the nvidea sata drivers are these not included in the 5.10 ide software driver for chipset if they are not how would i find these and install

for some reason my properties shows 2 of each thing cant figure it out in device manager

primary ide channel <<<<<this shows nothing
primary ide channel <<<<<<this shows my sata hard drive with ultra dma 6
secondary ide channel <<<<<<< this shows my liteon dvd writer
secondary ide channel <<<<<<<this shows nothing
standard dual channel pci ide controller
standard dual channel pci ide controller

both the above dual channel ones show the same but top one shows device 9 and bottom one device 8
 
FatRakoon said:
As for the Freezer64, I am a little disappointed with it to be honest.

I have dropped a couple of C for sure, but I miss the way the FX55 Cooler sped up and you heard it do so... It was very comfoting.
I was surprised how quiet the thing is. Can hardly hear it. So don't really mind that I don't hear it change speed.

As to drives - only the specs are worth looking at. Don't matter where you have things. Especially as each PC is layed out the same, so same conditions for benchmarking.

bigjonnyauk: I am not sure where the SATA drivers are as I don't use them with my SCSIs. But installing the nVidia drivers will help. And a quick visit to the MSI drivers page will no doubt answer if there are any better ones. (Link probally on first page of this thread)

If you want to remove those doubled up controllers listed in Device Manager, then go into the BIOS and turn off the IDE PATA and SATA controllers that you are not using.
 
Yes, I have a number of Maxtor 40GB ATA133 Drives... As I have a number of PCs, these are among the best combination of price against quality, and speed, and they are bloody fast to be fair too... Still not 100% on the reliability, however, the one I am using as F:, is also my Downloads and junk drive, and considering thats downloading 24/7 from Ares and iMesh, at the same time, and has been doing for over a year now, I certainly think that has certainly proved itself.

Both the Barton and the AMD64 have that very same model drive yes, and the installations are not all the dissimilar, with both requiring near-identical drivers, and my procedure of installing A,B and C tools or whatever, is also the same order, and in fact, the size of the installation even after some time now, are only 135MB difference.

So, I would expect any HD benchmarks on C: to be very close indeed.

Actually, the VIA Motherboards I find are faster than Nforce... My KD7AR, if setup right, is a fantastic Mobo to play games like Doom3, FarCry, and HL2 on because the loading times are many times less than they are on the NF2 and this NF3 board.

Same cannot be said for the V400DA boards though.

hehe
 
I was just wondering if anyone is using this board with a San Diego 3700+ and 2x512 sticks of G.skill 4400le,i'm currently using these in an Epox 9nDA3+ mobo at HTT of 260 giving me a 2860mhz clock speed and 520 ddr @2.5/3/3/6,this will only work at 2T command rate though due to an incompatibilty with the epox board/rev E A64's and Double sided TCCD modules on BP PCB when in dual channel mode with command rate set at 1T.(what a mouthful that is) :D

A new bios would probably fix the problem but Epox don't seem interested,I have a new MSI Neo 2 plat sat beside me which I intend to install later in the hope that I can replicate the above settings at 1T with the new 1.8 modded bios could anyone confirm if the above components will work at high HTT at 1T on this board,any other advice regarding the Neo Plat also appreciated.Thanks :)
 
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