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**THE NVIDIA DRIVERS THREAD**

I'll wait and see with these. Good improvements in a fixed benchmark where optimization makes a massive difference but only a 4FPS improvement in an actual game.

A new game at that where new drivers always see improvements
 
NVIDIA doesn’t deny that a lower level API is beneficial or needed for PC gaming. It does, however, think that the methodology of AMD’s Mantle is the wrong way to go. Fragmenting the market into additional segments with a proprietary API does not maintain the benefits of hardware abstractions or “cross vendor support”. I realize that many readers will see some irony in this statement considering many in the industry would point to CUDA, PhysX, 3D Vision and others as NVIDIA’s own proprietary feature sets.
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Oh the irony !!

Will welcome some extra performance in DX11 though. AMD get major props for generating this much competition. Mantle def stirred up the beehive (:
 
Though it doesn’t want to admit it, NVIDIA is clearly feeling some pressure from gamers and media due to AMD’s homemade Mantle API. The company’s stance is to wait for DirectX 12 to be released and level the playing field with an industry standard rather than proceed down the pathway of another custom option. In the next 18 months, though, there will be quite a few games released with Mantle support, using the Frostbite engine or CryEngine. How well those games are built, and how much of an advantage the Mantle code path offers, will determine if gamers will respond positively to Radeon cards. NVIDIA, on the other hand, will be focusing its reticule on improving the efficiency and performance of DirectX 11 in its own driver stack in an attempt to maximize CPU efficiency (and thus overall performance) levels to rival Mantle.

During a handful of conversations with NVIDIA on DirectX and Mantle, there was a tone from some that leaned towards anger, but hints at annoyance. It’s possible, according to NVIDIA’s performance improvements in DX11 efficiency shown here, that AMD could have accomplished the same thing without pushing a new API ahead of DirectX 12. Questions about the division of internal resources on the AMD software team between Mantle and DirectX development are often murmured as is the motives of the developers continuing to adopt Mantle today. Finding the answers to such questions is a fruitless endeavor though and to speculate seems useless – for now.

AMD has done good with Mantle. Whether or not the company intended for the new API to become a new standard, or merely force Microsoft's hand with DirectX 12, it is thanks to AMD that we are even talking about efficiency with such passion. Obviously AMD hopes they can get some financial benefits from the time and money spent on the project, with improved marketshare and better mindshare with gamers on the PC. The number and quality of games that are released in 2014 (and some of 2015) will be the determining factor for that.

Over the next year and half, NVIDIA will need to prove its case that DirectX 11 can be just as efficient as what AMD has done with Mantle. Or at the very least, the performance deltas between the two options are small enough to not base purchasing decisions on. I do believe that upon the release of DX12, the playing field will level once again and development on Mantle will come to a close; that is, at least if Microsoft keeps its promises.
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We all have AMD to thank for the push for better use of current hardware and Nvidia's focus of reducing CPU overhead and maximizing performance in DX11. Imho for Microsoft's Direct X12 focus on 'closer to the metal' as well.

7YzydSb.jpg
 
Boomstick777 said:
We all have AMD to thank for the push for better use of current hardware and Nvidia's focus of reducing CPU overhead and maximizing performance in DX11. Imho for Microsoft's Direct X12 focus on 'closer to the metal' as well.

7YzydSb.jpg
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Do people really believe that these companies were not looking at this before with AMD first to get mantle out?
 
Stanners said:
Do people really believe that these companies were not looking at this before with AMD first to get mantle out?
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Do you really think nVidia would do this unless AMD had gone full speed ahead with Mantle? Mantle is a viable threat to their dominance in the Discrete market, without it they would've continued as before.
 
Did Nvidia only manage 70 FPS in Star Swarm with a 3960K and a 780TI?

here is 102 FPS with a Phenom II and a 7870XT. oh dear, not much good Nvidia. give me that 12 thread CPU and i will show you 150 FPS on a 7870XT, give me a 290X with it and i will show you 400 FPS.

===========================================================
Oxide Games
Star Swarm Stress Test - ©2013
C:\Users\####\Documents\Star Swarm\Output_14_03_23_1643.txt
Version 1.10
03/23/2014 16:43
===========================================================

== Hardware Configuration =================================
GPU: AMD Radeon HD 7800 Series
CPU: AuthenticAMD
AMD Phenom(tm) II X6 1090T Processor
Physical Cores: 6
Logical Cores: 6
Physical Memory: 8549396480
Allocatable Memory: 140737488224256
===========================================================


== Configuration ==========================================
API: Mantle
Scenario: ScenarioFollow.csv
User Input: Disabled
Resolution: 1920x1080
Fullscreen: True
GameCore Update: 16.6 ms
Bloom Quality: High
PointLight Quality: High
ToneCurve Quality: High
Glare Overdraw: 0
Shading Samples: 8
Shade Quality: Mid
Deferred Contexts: Disabled
Temporal AA Duration: 16
Temporal AA Time Slice: 8
Detailed Frame Info: Off
===========================================================


== Results ================================================
Test Duration: 360 Seconds
Total Frames: 36821

Average FPS: 102.28
Average Unit Count: 4963
Maximum Unit Count: 6037
Average Batches/MS: 548.86
Maximum Batches/MS: 2670.86
Average Batch Count: 5720
Maximum Batch Count: 30759
===========================================================
 
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Rroff said:
I'm only guessing as I don't know what level of interaction on it exists between nVidia and MS but I'd be unsuprised if these DX11 tweaks are game specific improvements rather than API wholesale improvements where nVidia has reproduced their own game specific tuned version of functions that are holding back performance in titles and over-riding the calls to those DX functions so that the nVidia ones are used instead.
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Sugarhell said:
They bypass some dx11 driver functions and they use their own
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I would be looking VERY closely at IQ in the next few months if I was an Nvidia owner. Some of the biggest scandals in GPUs revolve around this type of stuff.
 
Nvidia: While were working on DX12 is there any way you can speed up DX11 for us? This Mantle effect is scaring us.

Microsoft: We'll let you bypass some of our bloat if you pay us?

Nvidia: Deal!
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MyBrains said:
LoL :p
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This is why Game Developers are still taking Mantle up amidst all the DX12 noise.
This is why Mantle is here to stay

All thats happened now, Thanks to Nvidia and M$, is the PC Gaming industry is moving toward total fragmentation.
 
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