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**THE NVIDIA DRIVERS THREAD**

Nvidia and M$ still need to convince Game Developers to lock AMD out of features in actually using the API, while 'some' no doubt will do that, it also means others will use Mantle, possibly instead of.

What this means is you will need specifically an Nvidia or AMD GPU to run a specific game to its fullest extent, or at all.
Thats the future we are looking forward to, please tell me i'm not alone in not endorsing such a future, if i am then perhaps we deserve as a whole what some of us seemingly want, and will get.
 
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Lol mantle is supposed to be every bit as good as dx12 and maybe better. Yet the Nvidia crew are hoping that dx11 can pull it off. Great publicity for AMD right there. Goes to show if Nvidia had mantle the crew would love it. 1 or 2 guys coding mantle into a game has caused all this uproar. Imagine the whole team creating the game on mantle and i reckon there would be a few Nvidia convert's. This reaction to a performance driver update just shows how the Nvidia team are worried. There's not been an amd performance driver in quit a while so i wonder what the response will be.
 
humbug said:
All thats happened now, Thanks to Nvidia and M$, is the PC Gaming industry is moving toward total fragmentation.
Click to expand...

How is it thanks to NVidia and Microsoft? AMD are the ones who have sought to break away from the industry accepted standard.

If AMD's goal was purely a low level API for developers then they should get behind DirectX now, otherwise they are the ones who will fragment the industry.
 
mmj_uk said:
I don't see how Mantle will be able to compete if NVidia and Microsoft have a magic switch to enable Mantle-like performance improvements on a firmly entrenched DirectX 11, it sounds too good to be true tbh!

If it's the case it would be easier for AMD to just fall in line and release their own DX11 low level driver rather than push for Mantle and fragment the PC gaming industry.

How soon is the NVidia driver expected?
Click to expand...

mmj_uk said:
How is it thanks to NVidia and Microsoft? AMD are the ones who have sought to break away from the industry accepted standard.

If AMD's goal was purely a low level API for developers then they should get behind DirectX now, otherwise they are the ones who will fragment the industry.
Click to expand...


from the article said:
NVIDIA doesn’t deny that a lower level API is beneficial or needed for PC gaming. It does, however, think that the methodology of AMD’s Mantle is the wrong way to go. Fragmenting the market into additional segments with a proprietary API does not maintain the benefits of hardware abstractions or “cross vendor support”. I realize that many readers will see some irony in this statement considering many in the industry would point to CUDA, PhysX, 3D Vision and others as NVIDIA’s own proprietary feature sets.
Click to expand...

from me said:
BTW,Nvidia used NV API for BF2 and BF3 too which pushed them ahead of AMD in those games. Try not to forget about that either and that was proprietary. However,the line about AMD trying to fragment the gaming industry - Nvidia has been pushing proprietary stuff FAR longer and even the article mocked the crocodile tears. PCPER also has close ties to Nvidia,so if they said that they must have seen the irony in the statement.
Click to expand...

Both AMD and Nvidia are doing it now - what to do??
 
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Lol at the nVidia crew...

Speaking for myself, I want more performance and AMD have not come forward or given nVidia the SDK/Mantle libs and now we are the bad guys.

DX11 will give nVidia more performance in DX11 games, why is this such a bad thing?
 
humbug said:
Nvidia and M$ still need to convince Game Developers to lock AMD out of features in actually using the API, while 'some' no doubt will do that, it also means others will use Mantle instead.

What this means is you will need specifically an Nvidia or AMD GPU to run a specific game to its fullest extent, or at all.
Thats the future we are looking forward to, please tell me i'm not alone in not endorsing such a future, if i am then perhaps we deserve as a whole what some of us seemingly want, and will get.
Click to expand...

But wont DX12 benefit all? Mantle will be locked to AMD, if I was a developer and DX12 offered mantle performance or even better then I'd be more inclined to develop for DX12 knowing sales would be maximised as both camps get the benefit, I'm just finding it more difficult to see any long term future for Mantle, my opinion.
 
So basically:
1.)AMD gets devs to use Mantle in some games with their cards. Means lower end CPUs get a decent boost.
2.)Nvidia improves drivers which means targeted games improve on lower end CPUs with their cards.
3.)DX12 will not be out fully until next year,meaning we get the benefits now for both camps. Maybe,Mantle will be better?? Who knows?? Each side gets an improvement.
4.)Both improvements will mean MS will have to make sure DX12 looks better,otherwise will appear as a damb squib.
4.)AMD CPUs might actually end up looking better as result,due to new drivers/APIs using more threads better. In fact this is probably going to benefit them more on the CPU side than the GPU side. Mantle/NV new drivers/DX12 will all benefit AMD CPUs relatively more.
5.)There will be multiple solutions competing with each other meaning,not one solution can rest on its laurels,meaning there will need to be innovation.
6.)Profit??
 
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mmj_uk said:
How is it thanks to NVidia and Microsoft? AMD are the ones who have sought to break away from the industry accepted standard.

If AMD's goal was purely a low level API for developers then they should get behind DirectX now, otherwise they are the ones who will fragment the industry.
Click to expand...

AMD came up with an API that breaks the chains of Microsoft DX dependency and left the door open for Nvidia to join them.

Nvidia's response was to bolster the Microsoft Monopoly by getting into bed with them and fragmenting DX to brand specifics, IE locking AMD out of some of its features.

That is thie sure way to kill our independent GPU choice.

Nvidia for some games.
AMD for others.
 
humbug said:
Did Nvidia only manage 70 FPS in Star Swarm with a 3960K and a 780TI?

here is 102 FPS with a Phenom II and a 7870XT. oh dear, not much good Nvidia. give me that 12 thread CPU and i will show you 150 FPS on a 7870XT, give me a 290X with it and i will show you 400 FPS.

===========================================================
Oxide Games
Star Swarm Stress Test - ©2013
C:\Users\####\Documents\Star Swarm\Output_14_03_23_1643.txt
Version 1.10
03/23/2014 16:43
===========================================================

== Hardware Configuration =================================
GPU: AMD Radeon HD 7800 Series
CPU: AuthenticAMD
AMD Phenom(tm) II X6 1090T Processor
Physical Cores: 6
Logical Cores: 6
Physical Memory: 8549396480
Allocatable Memory: 140737488224256
===========================================================


== Configuration ==========================================
API: Mantle
Scenario: ScenarioFollow.csv
User Input: Disabled
Resolution: 1920x1080
Fullscreen: True
GameCore Update: 16.6 ms
Bloom Quality: High
PointLight Quality: High
ToneCurve Quality: High
Glare Overdraw: 0
Shading Samples: 8
Shade Quality: Mid
Deferred Contexts: Disabled
Temporal AA Duration: 16
Temporal AA Time Slice: 8
Detailed Frame Info: Off
===========================================================


== Results ================================================
Test Duration: 360 Seconds
Total Frames: 36821

Average FPS: 102.28
Average Unit Count: 4963
Maximum Unit Count: 6037
Average Batches/MS: 548.86
Maximum Batches/MS: 2670.86
Average Batch Count: 5720
Maximum Batch Count: 30759
===========================================================
Click to expand...

Is that with Mantle?
 
Gregster said:
Lol at the nVidia crew...

Speaking for myself, I want more performance and AMD have not come forward or given nVidia the SDK/Mantle libs and now we are the bad guys.

DX11 will give nVidia more performance in DX11 games, why is this such a bad thing?
Click to expand...

Because the proponents of AMD seem to be getting worried, so much so that it even looks like they don't want us Nvidia customers to get performance increases :confused:
 
TheRealDeal said:
Lol mantle is supposed to be every bit as good as dx12 and maybe better. Yet the Nvidia crew are hoping that dx11 can pull it off. Great publicity for AMD right there. Goes to show if Nvidia had mantle the crew would love it. 1 or 2 guys coding mantle into a game has caused all this uproar. Imagine the whole team creating the game on mantle and i reckon there would be a few Nvidia convert's. This reaction to a performance driver update just shows how the Nvidia team are worried. There's not been an amd performance driver in quit a while so i wonder what the response will be.
Click to expand...

The reaction by the forums AMD fanboys is the one that speaks volumes, given the choice now between DirectX which is GPU neutral and will offer low level features on both brands versus Mantle, which will realistically only ever be AMD exclusive and you lot are still banging the Mantle drum praying for it to prevail. Admit it, you all only really want to get one up on NVidia because it doesn't happen that often.
 
PhysicsMan94 said:
Because the proponents of AMD seem to be getting worried, so much so that it even looks like they don't want us Nvidia customers to get performance increases :confused:
Click to expand...

Well of course, loosing my free choice of what GPU to buy is not something i look forward to.

BF5 = AMD
CoD 6 = Nvidia

i don't want that.

What i want is:
BF5 = AMD and Nvidia
CoD6 = AMD and Nvidia
 
PhysicsMan94 said:
I highly doubt that games will become exclusive to AMD and Nvidia.
Click to expand...

This in a post which has Nvidia making a lot of noise about Nvidia specific DX features designed to ridicule AMD.

In DX that is, AMD will do is just continue to develop Mantle.

So you will have some developers using the DX features to make DX run better on Nvidia than AMD while others use Mantle to make thier game run better on AMD than Nvidia.

And there is your fragmentation.

Congratulations MicroVidia.
 
humbug said:
This in a post which has Nvidia making a lot of noise about Nvidia specific DX features designed to ridicule AMD.

In DX that is, AMD will do is just continue to develop Mantle.

So you will have some developers using the DX features to make DX run better on Nvidia than AMD while others use Mantle to make thier game run better on AMD than Nvidia.

And there is your fragmentation.

Congratulations MicroVidia.
Click to expand...

Why is that Microsoft and Nvidia's fault? If anything AMD are the ones who started down that path with Mantle, so it's their fault more than anyone else's.

But, anyway, I still think you are blowing this way out of proportion.
 
humbug said:
Well of course, loosing my free choice of what GPU to buy is not something i look forward to.

BF5 = AMD
CoD 6 = Nvidia

i don't want that.

What i want is:
BF5 = AMD and Nvidia
CoD6 = AMD and Nvidia
Click to expand...

I don't think there is a lot to worry about. Give it a couple of years with DX12 well established and everyone will be using that.

Game devs are not going to waste their time or money writing games that are compatable with three difference systems when they can get the performance from DX12.
 
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