The official canon 5d mk4 thread

[Raymond Lin]

I really cannot understand why there is a need for such high burst speeds in Wedding Photography? Why do you need 30 or 40 almost identical stills of the Bride and Groom walking down the Aisle towards you? Sure one of them might be good, but is seems like a spray and pray approach. Might as well get a 4K video camera and pull stills out of the footage?

Because you get 1 chance of the aisle shot. You can't ask them to walk it again, there is only so much faith you can rely on the focus, the bride and groom tend to look on the floor, they look in the wrong place half the time, they blink, lick lips, guests blocking the way, other camera flashes going off at the wrong time, etc. All the while walking backwards.

If you remove a photo for each of the point above, you might get 1 single half decent photo.

I don't need 30 to 40 photos, I need 1 great one, I prefer to get about 2 to 3.

Don't believe me, have a go.

 

[jonneymendoza]

at the back, right of the screen, above the dial is a little joystick. You can use it the navigate and move focus points.

I tend to press it down when I haven't use the camera for a few minutes, it resets it to the centre point. Then without looking at the camera I know the focus point is dead centre. And, without looking still, I can now roll the dials left or right a few clicks by feel and I know it is now at a focus point.

So all without looking, I know where I can focus, then when I raise the camera on my face, the photo is already framed before it is framed so to speak.

It saves me having to correct focus points, I know where i am before the camera is up at my eye.

Ahh yes. i have a 5d3 as well and use this feature a lot and its lacking in the A7r2.

It's also pretty cool to think those fast primes are also stabilised.
However I think the 35mm could have been a bit better. I would love a 35mm Gmaster like the 85mm.

Yup they are all stabalised. Sony already has a 35mm f1.4 prime. Not from the G master series though but from the Distagon range(which are built like tanks but have some QC issues).

Because you get 1 chance of the aisle shot. You can't ask them to walk it again, there is only so much faith you can rely on the focus, the bride and groom tend to look on the floor, they look in the wrong place half the time, they blink, lick lips, guests blocking the way, other camera flashes going off at the wrong time, etc. All the while walking backwards.

If you remove a photo for each of the point above, you might get 1 single half decent photo.

I don't need 30 to 40 photos, I need 1 great one, I prefer to get about 2 to 3.

Don't believe me, have a go.

I shot an f1 race a while ago on the 5dmk3 and the burst mode was pathetic and slow for it. lots of missed shots and even the shots i got that were usable, i was lucky.

I also had to rip out the sd card out as the buffer rate was a joke like the one on the Sony a7r2.

The Sony a7r2 has poor buffer rate when shooting uncompressed raw but i am more faithful that sony will fix that in its next update vs canon fixing the similar buffer issue on the 5d3.

 

[Andy90]

Yes I understand most of that, but if that's the case it seems you would be better off using a 4k capable camera and pulling out the stills not relying on a series of shots that might not be 'perfect'.

If you're able to do all the above with a 5D Mark III, then perhaps there isnt a need for a Mark IV?

Heaven knows how Wedding Photographers coped years ago. Perhaps mastered the 'descisive moment'?

 

[Raymond Lin]

Actually, lately when doing shots where I need the burst and buffer, I change the settings in camera so it only writes to CF card instead of dual. Then change it back immediately.

I also have another body over my body all set up, ISO and all. I normally start walking backwards with 35mm, and when i hit the buffer, instead of waiting for it to clear (it is not like i can yell "STOP!"), I sling it over my shoulder and grab the other camera with a 24mm ready to goo. That switch of camera will cost me precious seconds but the wider lens compensate in the focal length...

These tricks they don't teach you in books !

 

[Raymond Lin]

Yes I understand most of that, but if that's the case it seems you would be better off using a 4k capable camera and pulling out the stills not relying on a series of shots that might not be 'perfect'.

If you're able to do all the above with a 5D Mark III, then why the need for a Mark IV?

Heaven knows how Wedding Photographers coped years ago. Perhaps mastered the 'descisive moment'?

Seriously, have a go yourself.

Point 1 - why not shoot in 4k camera?

Because I am not shooting 4K video for 12 hours, and because 4k images is nothing these days. And will these 4K images be good enough for processing? How do they "react" in LR?

Point 2, why the need for Mk4?

It is not the NEED for Mk4, it is the expectation the Mk4 is going to be better than Mk3. Not using the same CF/SD card speed, especially when the competition has moved on, especially it is not some exclusive tech by other manufacturer. It's just evolution.

Point 3

As for what do people do in the old days? Photographers in the old days deliver about 100 photos, they shoot mostly formals, they don't shoot documentary, they pretty much go home when it gets dark because the cameras weren't up to the job.

Technology have changed, standards have gone up, expectations have gone up. My own expectations have gone up with it. I want to set the bar higher, higher than my clients expects, it is the only way to go.

Yes, I shot it the same way with my Mk2, and yes I got the shots, but it is always a worry, so is it wrong to expect the tech to be better so I don't have to worry as much?

 

[jonneymendoza]

Yes I understand most of that, but if that's the case it seems you would be better off using a 4k capable camera and pulling out the stills not relying on a series of shots that might not be 'perfect'.

If you're able to do all the above with a 5D Mark III, then perhaps there isnt a need for a Mark IV?

Heaven knows how Wedding Photographers coped years ago. Perhaps mastered the 'descisive moment'?

lol the 4k stills are in jpeg 7mp in the 5d4!!

 

[Steve M]

lol the 4k stills are in jpeg 7mp in the 5d4!!

Exactly. Imagine presenting those to a client!

Lets go the whole hog and abandon stills photography completely! Just film everything and rip stills from the footage...

 

[Andy90]

lol the 4k stills are in jpeg 7mp in the 5d4!!

Lol, who mentioned shooting 4k on a 5d mark IV?

If your going to shoot 4k there are better cameras around.

My point was if your shot is that crucial, you might as well film in high res and high fps to pull a 4k still out.

 

[Andy90]

Exactly. Imagine presenting those to a client!

Lets go the whole hog and abandon stills photography completely! Just film everything and rip stills from the footage...

Well if people are asking for higher and higher fps and buffers on a still camera to capture that "moment" then at some point still photography is getting very close to filming in hi res and high fps.

 

[Minstadave]

Lol, who mentioned shooting 4k on a 5d mark IV?

If your going to shoot 4k there are better cameras around.

My point was if your shot is that crucial, you might as well film in high res and high fps to pull a 4k still out.

You're still only going to get a lowish res heavily compressed jpg. Not exactly want you want for once in a lifetime (or once-ish for weddings) photos.

 

[Steve M]

I think he's trolling..

 

[Raymond Lin]

The bottom line is Canon should have implemented existing technology in their new professional grade camera.

They should implement technology that is not exclusive to other brands, it's only a buffer size!

They should implement technology that has been out for a few years in their biggest competition.

The expectation is not even supersede their competitors for me, I merely want similar performance, performance that has been out on the market for 2+ years.

Is that too much to ask?

 

[SDK^]

Lol, who mentioned shooting 4k on a 5d mark IV?

If your going to shoot 4k there are better cameras around.

My point was if your shot is that crucial, you might as well film in high res and high fps to pull a 4k still out.

Seriously - shoot a whole wedding in 4K video for stills
Good luck with that workstream and storage requirements.

When is the 6D replacement due?

 

[jonneymendoza]

I asked a lad on dpreview a series of question for him to try and do on the 5d4 as he had a play with one today and here is the bit about the buffer rate.

5. Normal buffer depth (RAW only, ISO100, with “record” function set to “Standard”, just the CF card in the respective slot).

This was in tune with specs (21 shots) with me getting 19, 20 and 21 shots before fps drop in 3 consecutive AIS/High-fps series.

6. "Buffer rate in DPRAW option enabled with just cf card inside".

This was above specs (7shots). I got 9, 12 and 14 shots in 3 consecutive AIS/High-fps runs, pointing at different areas before the FPS rate dropped.

7. "Same as above but with a SD card inside shooting large jpegs and DPRAW in the cf card (does the sd card slot gimp the buffer rate?)"

I found this request a bit odd and thought it would make more sense making it the other way around, so I set the “record” function to “Rec. Separately”, with RAW going to the SD and large Jpegs to the CF card. I got 10, 11 and 11 shots before fps drop in those conditions.

8. Now for the impressive bit: I repeated test 5) but with just the SD card in slot 2 and to my (our) amazement the buffer would simply not top-up, with throughput to the card of such an high number of frames that I had to eventually give up and cut the shutter.

We found this odd and made sure that everything was set as in 5) above (RAW only, ISO100, with “record” function set to “Standard”, just the SD card in the respective slot, AIS and high-speed drive engaged) and repeated the test. Same results.

I was, like, “Pretty impressive, no?” and he was, like “Yes...” but immediately added “but we don’t make this claim”, lol...

The surprising thing is that the buffer rate seems to be gimped on the cf slot and not the sd card slot(he says he was able to shoot none stop raw on the sd card alone!)

 

[xaldub]

A lacklustre upgrade from Canon ... especially at that price. I think it's going to sell quite poorly especially as the competition is likely to increase after Photokina.

 

[Andy90]

I think he's trolling..

Few things Steven, no I'm not trolling, trying to have a discussion, the fact that you might not agree with me isn't an excuse for calling me a troll.

Secondly in answer to a previous post, no you're right I'm not paid to photograph things, its a hobby. Anyone who does earn a full time living at it clearly is very good.

SDK^ - Yes I understand filming an entire wedding in 4K would be onerous in respect of workflow and storage, however that wasn't what I meant. You could film certain parts, such as the Bride throwing a bouquet in 4K and with sufficient fps and take the optimum shot from within the footage.

Raymond - you're clearly good at taking wedding photographs and yes, there is a lot to it I know, it's just it surprised me that wedding photographers stick the camera on full burst and shoot away - always thought the shots were picked off one by one, again if that's what it takes then that's what it takes.

Anyway this is really about the Camera not abilities, so to put it back on track, DPreview have and interesting first impression review (some of which does touch on my 4K thoughts).

https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canon-eos-5d-mark-iv-first-impressions-review

They've also got a first look video.

https://www.dpreview.com/news/7836245853/video-getting-our-hands-dirty-with-the-canon-eos-5d-mark-iv

The official Canon page for the 5D Mark IV can be found at

http://www.canon.co.uk/cameras/eos-5d-mark-iv/

The side by side comparison against the Mark III is quite interesting, more pixels on the sensor, Dual pixel raw, 61 points at f/8, slightly faster fps, more metering sensors, 4K video, HDR movie mode and Time lapse mode, higher res LCD, built in GPS and Wifi and improved weather sealing, granted not a revolution but more of an evolution of the series.

 

[Steve M]

Few things Steven, no I'm not trolling, trying to have a discussion, the fact that you might not agree with me isn't an excuse for calling me a troll.

Yes, I don't agree with you.

You suggesting that a professional wedding photographer should film the bride and groom walking down the isle in 4k, then take stills from that footage and present those to the client is, quite frankly, absurd.

So absurd in fact, that I thought you were trolling, especially with you saying things like "Heaven knows how Wedding Photographers coped years ago"..

Sounded like classic trolling to me.

 

[SDK^]

what I meant. You could film certain parts, such as the Bride throwing a bouquet in 4K and with sufficient fps and take the optimum shot from within the footage.

Okay....
So are you suggesting a seperate camera to film the 4k video for the stills?

- If so - that is very cumbersome to carry and organise.
- If not - this new Canon 5D has a 1.75x crop factor so you would need to swap lenses between photo and video to get the same view. (Full Frame in photo mode vs 1.75 crop in video mode)

Either way, it sounds like an awesome workflow experience

 

[jonneymendoza]

Yup cannot wait to edit 7mp jpeg files and give them to clients.

 

[SDK^]

Also

Canon need to remove the Anti-Aliasing (AA) filter on the sensor - it kills sharpness. Most of the other camera makers (Sony (and therefore Nikon) & Pentax) have removed it.

Make the top LCD a touch OLED display, not 1980's Casio watch tech. It's a £3.5k camera !!