The *Official* Eve Online Thread

[Rroff]

The problem with gang boosts when I used them (years back) was you pretty much had to sit in a safe area while boosting everyone which was flat out boring. 3 gang mods meant you couldn't really run much of a defense or offense.

There was a lot more ways you could use them - problem is a lot of people didn't put much imagination into it though it was largely a role for an alt.

I did have a combat orientated Eos that could run 2-3 links and do a lot of damage as a hands on ship but mostly minimal hands on setups.

For PVE I used 6 link command ships quite a bit - largely sat at POS (or just off the POS after they prevented links running inside a POS).

One setup I had was a "buffbot" Eos that I could "slave" to my main if it was flying a guardian or something like that - which combined a fair few minimal hands on capabilities as well as meaning I didn't have to fully rely on anyone I happened to be in a team with being competent - been awhile so this might not be the final fit I had:

Spoiler

(Though I mostly ended up using it for PVE rather than PVP).

 

[George Hincapie]

Think the new changes look crap. Almost all my Corps have stopped playing, so I think I'll save myself £30 a month and stop as well.

 

[Destination]

Wonder how they will keep the forums clean, or will the subbed accounts be the ones allowed to contribute.

 

[supermachariel]

Think the new changes look crap. Almost all my Corps have stopped playing, so I think I'll save myself £30 a month and stop as well.

What changes exactly are upsetting you?

 

[NZXT30]

I dont know why people assume eve will be flooded with new players. Eve is a very old game and most people that are interested in its concept have already tried it. Yes there will be an increase but I dont expect anything major especially long term.

 

[Rroff]

What changes exactly are upsetting you?

I really don't get what CCP are doing - more and more changes that hit their longest serving customers (many of them multi-account users who've kept things ticking over) the hardest while pandering to here today gone tomorrow transient and/or flavour of the month gamers with an undeniable result of active player levels going downwards in step changes in response and if you drill into the ingame activity metrics a likewise indication of a downward trend despite CCP selectively using resurgence in activity in certain areas as an indication of their changes "working" - usually those "increases" in activity are driven by things like older players leaving meaning current players having to carry out activities previously redundant to fill in the gap left, etc.

Take the recent changes to links for instance - completely tramples over anyone who might have invested into link use, ignores people who might use links in any way other than the "problem" area and 9 out of 10 people complaining about links are those that want easy kills with all the rewards and no effort, that isn't to say links were necessarily in a good place but the changes are just stupid a much better solution would have been to keep the more passive bonuses more or less as the were - maybe with a little massage downwards while moving some of the more offensive/powerful bonuses into an active ongrid role i.e.:

All passive/local defence bonuses retain both ongrid and offgrid with slightly higher ongrid bonus

All remote repair bonuses moved ongrid

All offensive ewar bonuses moved ongrid

Sensor Integrity bonus retains offgrid but more powerful version ongrid

All mining links retain offgrid but with a significantly more powerful active ongrid version for orca and rorqual

Skirmish mostly left as is but rapid deployment and disruptor/scram range moved ongrid

Which would have given a good balance of reinvigorating link use for battlefield use, kept the impact low on those who used links in areas unrelated to the main complaints and shifted the balance of power ongrid. THe ability to see if someone has links in effect before engaging (and a mechanic so that they can't just toggle them on) would be good to.

Most of the changes as CCP propose will just make links un-necessarily awkward to use, those complaining about them still won't use links (most of them just want to see links gone), link use will likely drop off with the result of a whole load more accounts going inactive.

I dont know why people assume eve will be flooded with new players. Eve is a very old game and most people that are interested in its concept have already tried it. Yes there will be an increase but I dont expect anything major especially long term.

Two aspects to that - free is free - I suspect a good number will make use of it as a way to kill time/social, etc. that maybe wouldn't normally feel like investing into or interested in Eve to the extent of playing it normally and then people like myself who are fedup with the way the direction the game is going and/or can't justify the investment any more either in time or money likely to drop back in now and again i.e. the odd weekend I'd probably roll an alpha clone and do some public roams or something.

 

[murah]

GOOD offgrid links need to die a horrible death it's going to be good having them on grid and the need to co-ordinate them too long off-grid has ruined small gang, FW and "solo" players(with snakes and links) are literal cancer.

The F2P changes I'm super excited for and assuming CCP handle it correctly so it's not abused (think 40man disposable high sec gank fleets) I welcome the change.


Now as to mining links I understand the frustration to some degree but it's workable will just have to see how that one pans out.

None of this come closes to what Fozz-sov did to the game!

 

[NZXT30]

I really don't get what CCP are doing - more and more changes that hit their longest serving customers (many of them multi-account users who've kept things ticking over) the hardest while pandering to here today gone tomorrow transient and/or flavour of the month gamers with an undeniable result of active player levels going downwards in step changes in response and if you drill into the ingame activity metrics a likewise indication of a downward trend despite CCP selectively using resurgence in activity in certain areas as an indication of their changes "working" - usually those "increases" in activity are driven by things like older players leaving meaning current players having to carry out activities previously redundant to fill in the gap left, etc.

Take the recent changes to links for instance - completely tramples over anyone who might have invested into link use, ignores people who might use links in any way other than the "problem" area and 9 out of 10 people complaining about links are those that want easy kills with all the rewards and no effort, that isn't to say links were necessarily in a good place but the changes are just stupid a much better solution would have been to keep the more passive bonuses more or less as the were - maybe with a little massage downwards while moving some of the more offensive/powerful bonuses into an active ongrid role i.e.:

All passive/local defence bonuses retain both ongrid and offgrid with slightly higher ongrid bonus

All remote repair bonuses moved ongrid

All offensive ewar bonuses moved ongrid

Sensor Integrity bonus retains offgrid but more powerful version ongrid

All mining links retain offgrid but with a significantly more powerful active ongrid version for orca and rorqual

Skirmish mostly left as is but rapid deployment and disruptor/scram range moved ongrid

Which would have given a good balance of reinvigorating link use for battlefield use, kept the impact low on those who used links in areas unrelated to the main complaints and shifted the balance of power ongrid. THe ability to see if someone has links in effect before engaging (and a mechanic so that they can't just toggle them on) would be good to.

Most of the changes as CCP propose will just make links un-necessarily awkward to use, those complaining about them still won't use links (most of them just want to see links gone), link use will likely drop off with the result of a whole load more accounts going inactive.

To be honest you seem to just like broken and unbalanced mechanics that have been long overdue for a change... The game is so much more fun these days than a couple of years now that people that like these sort of mechanics have left. Everyone agrees to that.

Two aspects to that - free is free - I suspect a good number will make use of it as a way to kill time/social, etc. that maybe wouldn't normally feel like investing into or interested in Eve to the extent of playing it normally and then people like myself who are fedup with the way the direction the game is going and/or can't justify the investment any more either in time or money likely to drop back in now and again i.e. the odd weekend I'd probably roll an alpha clone and do some public roams or something.

These kind of people will bring them 0 income.

 

[Rroff]

To be honest you seem to just like broken and unbalanced mechanics that have been long overdue for a change... The game is so much more fun these days than a couple of years now that people that like these sort of mechanics have left. Everyone agrees to that.

Nothing particularly unbalanced about them as such - broken is somewhat a more complex story as there is some areas of the game the implementation hits in a more negative way than others depending a bit what you engage yourself with ingame and the game is basically dying on its feet so it isn't all a good thing - most of the changes I propose would largely fix potential balance issues, etc. with minimal impact on people not part of the main problem areas, etc. a lot of the hate for links when you really boil it down is that it favours those who are prepared and put effort in versus those who just want easy kills - all the rewards without the effort - some might obfuscate and hide behind some protestations of other "unbalanced", etc. mechanics but but don't fool me - I've seen it too many times in eve the moment links are gone they'll move onto complaining about the next mechanic that stops them getting kills without putting in effort.

These kind of people will bring them 0 income.

Not directly maybe though a few might get back into the game again but keeping the game alive and active increases the overall number of people who will pay to play, an inactive/declining game tends to only go one way (and I guess CCP have atleast the sense to realise that).

GOOD offgrid links need to die a horrible death it's going to be good having them on grid and the need to co-ordinate them too long off-grid has ruined small gang, FW and "solo" players(with snakes and links) are literal cancer.

And yet when I quit the peak player count was like 58K with average something like 42K while now its like 37K peak with 23K average and dropping - ironically it is people with your kind of opinion that are slowly but surely killing the game - not to say the opinion it entirely without merit but CCP seems to swing from one extreme to the other without a proper attempt to find a middle ground and there is certainly room for middle ground almost every time.

The F2P changes I'm super excited for and assuming CCP handle it correctly so it's not abused (think 40man disposable high sec gank fleets) I welcome the change.

Unless its changed since I last read up on it I think CCP is a bit naive if they think that alpha clones won't be used for massive griefing and ganking in highsec potentially to out of control levels.

 

[NZXT30]

And yet when I quit the peak player count was like 58K with average something like 42K while now its like 37K peak with 23K average and dropping - ironically it is people with your kind of opinion that are slowly but surely killing the game - not to say the opinion it entirely without merit but CCP seems to swing from one extreme to the other without a proper attempt to find a middle ground and there is certainly room for middle ground almost every time.

What you fail to realise though is that the game is in a way better state now and the smaller playerbase is much happier having tons more fun. The players that left (capital alts, mining multiboxers, skynet gate campers, offgrid boosts cheaters etc) weren't really contributing anything to the community so their absence is not noticed. CCP has shown that isk destruction has stayed relatively the same while 30% of the playerbase has left . Good riddance I say. They also reported record profits for their last financial year.

Yes eve is a very old game and one day not in the far future it will cease to exist no matter how many improvements ccp makes but its a hell of a good time to play eve right now.

 

[Rroff]

What you fail to realise though is that the game is in a way better state now and the smaller playerbase much happier having tons more fun. Yes eve is a very old game and one day not in the far future it will cease to exist no matter how many improvements ccp makes.

TBH that isn't the impression I'm getting talking to people I know IRL who are still playing - some of them in big alliances like PL and some in smaller corps, with a broad range of interests in the game but a lot do small gang, etc. stuff. Most are saying despite some resurgences and initial enthusiasm for some changes there is largely discontent and utter boredom with the game and they are struggling with decline in active members with loads leaving the game or taking a break beyond just normal seasonal fluctuation.

Thing is though, even though I think some of the changes are how the game should have been in the first place, most of the changes perfectly well could have been implemented (some more easily than others) with the same overall impact on the game but with far lower or even no impact on those who do things unrelated to the main problem area(s) and/or had put a lot of time and effort into the game with the overall result that the game would be in a far better place active subscribers wise - even CCP is now having to acknowledge the effects of it but for some reason still pushing on with changes with the same kind of heavy handed implementation.

The players that left (capital alts, mining multiboxers, skynet gate campers, offgrid boosts cheaters etc) weren't really contributing anything to the community so their absence is not noticed.

You realise right that people doing skynet for instance was a tiny, tiny insignificant number of those that quit in response to those changes? and aside from some irregular incidental use because people could, there was like 3 people who did "skynet" prolifically - but they made quite a bit of a stir because they could camp major connections like the links to Thera with almost impunity (largely because other players lacked the ingenuity or willingness to put in the effort to counter them - if you bother to read the threads on the eve-o forums I posted videos of both just how easily someone doing skynet could make themselves almost untouchable (even against surprise doomsdays) but also ways that could be used to catch them if people were prepared to be a bit inventive). The larger number that quit in response to those changes were those null PVE farming from the safety of their POSes who would run and hide from a PVP encounter anyhow - I demonstrated a few ways that changes could be made to kill skynet and put a better balance of risk into the use for things like PVE farming without resulting in all those players leaving :S (Your perspective might be that they aren't a big loss but my perspective was trying to make changes that instead of pushing them away resulted in their activities in the game being more productive for the overall game instead).

Not sure what your gripe is with the rest - many of those who put a lot of time into links also spent a lot of time developing communities, etc. especially for things like wormhole PVE and PVP and groups like R&K, Did he say Jump, etc. to be able to take the fight to bigger numbers by being prepared and so on - again the number doing silly things like snaked and linked frigs for PVP is a relatively tiny number even if it is something some players encounter a lot and only one of a ton of ways links were used in the game - people seem to ignore just how widely they are used for PVE, etc.

EDIT: On the subject of links - I dunno why CCP never enhanced the field of boosters (drugs) centric to single/small gang use - as links are intended really as a fleet thing and boosters for a single pilot - by making drugs that not only not stack with links but potentially as a penalty negate some or all link bonuses but give more significant bonuses to certain areas than links do - making them more desirable for solo play, adding tools to the game for extending the skill ceiling if they are implemented right and balancing those areas of the game for those who for whatever reason aren't running a links alt.

 

[Bobie8]

those who put a lot of time into links also spent a lot of time developing communities, etc. especially for things like wormhole PVE and PVP and groups like R&K, Did he say Jump, etc.

These are the kind of groups that will adapt and overcome. Links were not necessarily OP but they needed to be changed.

Boosters have received a minor buff they are now legal and cheaper.

 

[Rroff]

These are the kind of groups that will adapt and overcome. Links were not necessarily OP but they needed to be changed.

Boosters have received a minor buff they are now legal and cheaper.

It isn't really a buff that is needed in the context of what I'm talking about but that they could (along with tweaks to links) have been utilised with some changes to remove many of the issues links cause in certain areas without as widespread collateral effect as the current changes - which will largely fall short of the mark (though it will undoubtedly make a certain group of players happy) while driving down active accounts yet again (somewhat offset by the alpha clone stuff).

 

[Kavalree]

Back where I belong. Back on EVE, back in DGBC and TEST...

Damn, feels good to be back!

GET REKT BADDIES!

TEST ALLIANCE IS BEST ALLIANCE!

 

[VeNT]

two weeks to go everyone.
Are you ready?

 

[Tom0]

Back where I belong. Back on EVE, back in DGBC and TEST...

Damn, feels good to be back!

GET REKT BADDIES!

TEST ALLIANCE IS BEST ALLIANCE!

 

[Rroff]

Are caps in highsec a thing since recent patch(es)? all but one of mine have been dumped in highsec stations.

EDIT: As an aside if anyone remembers my earlier post about my skills still showing as training and working through the queue I had 100s of days after I stopped subscribing - all those skills appear to be trained ingame (though logged in as alpha clone so can't use them).

 

[VeNT]

ok so I think CCP have placed alpha clones at exactly the point where they need to be.
after 1 day I'm already thinking of re-subbing so I can use my T2 ships and modules!

 

[Wizardskills]

ok so I think CCP have placed alpha clones at exactly the point where they need to be.
after 1 day I'm already thinking of re-subbing so I can use my T2 ships and modules!

Yeah I know, wasn't really planning on getting back into the game but I may do now

 

[Rroff]

This game has some funny bugs - when I quit I had 2 accounts with under 4 days of multi character training left - I've used some PLEX to reactivate out of what ISK I have left and those accounts have now 30 days of game time and 30 days of multi character training lol.

CCP won't help with moving the one capital I have left in wormhole space though while unsubscribed my probing alts got moved to highsec somehow while the carrier is now logged off with an invalid fit from before the capital changes, can't even warp out of whatever I log into on that char, etc. bit off really.