He has lost once in 10 years, it's far from the end for Fedor or M1.
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He has lost once in 10 years, it's far from the end for Fedor or M1.
Soldato
Thing is... I'm afraid of what he is gonna come back like... since the chains/pressure of defeat are now off...
Fedor 2.0 could be awesome
Fedor 2.0 could be awesome
Caporegime
It's not the loss that's the problem, it's the lack of serious top rated opponents that's the problem. He hasn't fought anyone of note for what, 5/6 years?
Keep facing sub rate fighters and eventually you're going to get caught, even by them, then you look like a mug.
Dana must be laughing his ass off.
I don't particularly want to see the end of Fedor, I would however love to see M1 go down the pan.
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Soldato
Thing is... I'm afraid of what he is gonna come back like... since the chains/pressure of defeat are now off...
Fedor 2.0 could be awesome
Or the opposite can happen and he could go in to a shell and lose his next fight or two depending on his opposition.
You say he hasn't fought anyone of note in the last 5 years, but at what HW rank was AA when he fought him? An in shape Tim Silvia isn't a push over and he certainly isn't an easy 30 second win via RnC. He was gunning after Barnett in Affliction who many people thought was a top 5 HW in the world at that time but a positive drug test put the brakes on that one.
He fought the best that were out there that were not contracted to UFC. Thats all the guy could do isn't it? The whole why didn't he sign for UFC is a completely new matter though.
Also, calling Werdum's BJJ sub rate, then Fedor a mug for getting caught is a little naive.
Caporegime
AA had recently only beaten the likes of Rothwell IIRC, so I wouldn't say he was top 5 that's for sure (and that's at a time when the heavyweight division was hardly deep)
Sylvia had been binned from the UFC for not being up to standard, so again, he wasn't a top level fighter. Push over? No, but still not the kind of fighter the supposed P4P best fighter in the world should be fighting.
The point about fighting those not contracted to the UFC, absolutely, but that just compounds my point. He hasn't fought top level competition for years.
Werdums BJJ isn't sub rate at all, but then I never said it was, what I said was he's a sub rate "Fighter", as in his complete package. I also never said Fedor was a mug, I said he "Looked" like a mug, which he does.
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Werdums BJJ isn't sub rate at all, but then I never said it was, what I said was he's a sub rate "Fighter", as in his complete package. I also never said Fedor was a mug, I said he "Looked" like a mug, which he does.
To me, when you say a fighter is sub rate, that means all areas of his game are average and nothing stands out. By your logic, people like JDS and Wanderlei are sub par fighters also. Werdum is fairly one dimensional, but so are many fighters, doesn't mean they are sub rate.
Also i don't see why getting caught in a two-time Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu world champion, a two-time ADCC world heavyweight champion and European Jiu-Jitsu champion's triangle/armbar makes you look like a mug though.
Caporegime
Just a difference in terminology. That's not what I mean by sub rate, sub rate to me means average as a "fighter". Werdum is exactly that, he has amazing ground skills but to be truly top of the food chain you need to be very well rounded, a couple of exceptions apply naturally. Think of it this way, if someone is amazing in one facet, but poor in others, would you still call him world class in MMA based on that one area to their game? Because I certainly wouldn't.
Fedor looks like a mug because he's been hyped for so long as being the P4P worlds best, constantly hounded to test himself yet chooses to always avoid the top fighters, in the top organization.... then gets beaten by someone who isn't a top fighter in that weight class.
He's basically been dodging the top guys for far too long, and it's finally caught up with him. I'm with Dana, how anyone can possibly rank Fedor as P4P worlds best is beyond me.
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Anyone can lose on any given day, it's the nature of the sport.
As much as I like Frankie Edgar, he isn't in the same league as a BJ Penn who is firing on all cylinders.
Matt Serra beat GSP but again 99/100 fights he loses.
There are so many ways to lose in this sport, even fighting cans you can get caught with a lucky punch.
Fedor has never stated he is the p4p king, it was a moniker given to him so M1 could demand more money for him. He is probably the most humble fighter out there.
Personally I feel Fedor will win the rematch, and will then be beaten by Ubereem.
As much as I like Frankie Edgar, he isn't in the same league as a BJ Penn who is firing on all cylinders.
Matt Serra beat GSP but again 99/100 fights he loses.
There are so many ways to lose in this sport, even fighting cans you can get caught with a lucky punch.
Fedor has never stated he is the p4p king, it was a moniker given to him so M1 could demand more money for him. He is probably the most humble fighter out there.
Personally I feel Fedor will win the rematch, and will then be beaten by Ubereem.
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Caporegime
Oops?
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Caporegime
I agree it can happen at any given time, that's what makes the sport so great. I wager that the backlash wouldn't be half as bad had he been beaten by the likes of Cain, JDS, Lesnar or Carwin though 
I don't think it really matters who it was, he was the "undefeatable"
That reminds me I can't wait for Cain to lose, I really don't think he is as good as the hype he has got. I'd love JDS vs Valasquez.
That reminds me I can't wait for Cain to lose, I really don't think he is as good as the hype he has got. I'd love JDS vs Valasquez.
I'll agree with the difference in terminology, because like you said there are always exceptions to the rule, because imo, prime CroCop, Wanderlei, and Hendo for instance are all one dimensional, but definitely world class MMA fighters.
As Dex says, even the best get caught, still failing to see how it makes him look like a mug
I'll have to disagree with this, Fedor is always fighting guys much bigger than him, even Fabricio was outweighing him by 10 pounds i seem to recall. Guys like GSP are fighting guys around their weight, he says he is 190 when he gets into the cage now. Silva and BJ are the same. P4P means if all fighters were the same weight and height only skills taken into consideration who would come out on top theoretically. Always there will be bias and no definitive answer to who is the best but how you could dismiss Fedor at #1 is strange.
This, i'd love to see JDS KO Valasques, won't ever see it though because they are both rising stars and Dana won't crush one of them yet. They will take it in turns for title shots and then possible face each other down the line.
Soldato
To quote what I put in the Strikeforce thread..
Personally for me Fedor was high and above majority of other HWs due to the fact that he dismantled anyone put infront of him.
For example.. AA.. 5 match win streak.. knocked out cold.. by a lucky punch like.. but I suppose you need them every now and again.
Rogers.. fast rising up and coming HW.. viscous hands.. knocking people out on his way to Fedor.. then.. Fedor stands with him and nearly takes his head off.
For me tho.. and I'm a Fedor fan.. Silva is the p4p. When he isn't acting his ass off that is. Perhaps tho Fedor will hit new heights now.
I personally would love to see him sign for the ufc and dismantle pretty much everyone he faces.. while at the same time ramming the haters words down their throats. Not gonna happen tho.
Gotta wonder what the guy has to do tho to get credit from the people who dislike him.
He fought Crocop and Big Nog while they were in their prime.. both were either knocking out or submitting people for fun.
I can't comment on Randleman as I am not sure of his age/fitness at the time.. but he did get flung on his head and still managed to submit him.
He also got massively rocked by Kazuyuki Fujita in 2003.. and then came back to catch him with a rear naked.
Loads of his other fights have been against either people massively above his weight or massively tall.. Man Choi being a good example.. that guy looked a beast.
He fought Coleman, Heath Herring, Matt Linland, Silvia, Arlovski, Rogers, Sobral.. all of whom are definitely not push overs.
I just can't understand how people can say he has fought nobody.. granted a lot of the people he has fought are Asian.. and we haven't really heard of many but Pride was a Asian corporation holding events which Asians bought tickets to watch.. therefore Asian fighters were probably preferred..
Hope I haven't ranted too long.. lol
Personally for me Fedor was high and above majority of other HWs due to the fact that he dismantled anyone put infront of him.
For example.. AA.. 5 match win streak.. knocked out cold.. by a lucky punch like.. but I suppose you need them every now and again.
Rogers.. fast rising up and coming HW.. viscous hands.. knocking people out on his way to Fedor.. then.. Fedor stands with him and nearly takes his head off.
For me tho.. and I'm a Fedor fan.. Silva is the p4p. When he isn't acting his ass off that is. Perhaps tho Fedor will hit new heights now.
I personally would love to see him sign for the ufc and dismantle pretty much everyone he faces.. while at the same time ramming the haters words down their throats. Not gonna happen tho.
Gotta wonder what the guy has to do tho to get credit from the people who dislike him.
I'd love to see him drop to 205 switch things up a bit.
Soldato
This might be a exciting idea tbh.. thing is Fedor seens to be a natural HW.. wonder if cutting would be possible..
Soldato
surely if he went after and fought those that are generally recognised as top heavyweights would suffice. Not saying he isn't number 1 but I think in general most people think the top heavyweights (other than himself) are in the UFC. If he doesn't go there and fight them then it doesn't exactly give the haters a reason to actually change their opinions. The Barrett fight would have helped since he was ranked highly until he failed his drugs test.
He is a tubby heavyweight, usually weighs about 230. I bet he could easily make 205 and be lean, some people think he could even make 185.
I don't think he'd ever consider it for similar reasons CroCop won't. They have far too much 'pride' (pun not intended
) and will see it as running away and as if they have to admit defeat. Still, i'm intrigued as to how long he will fight on for now, lots of talk about retirement after his last contracted SF fight and a move into politics.
If that is the case he will be forever be the "what if" man.