** The Official Nvidia GeForce 'Pascal' Thread - for general gossip and discussions **

[chaparral]

Personally I hope this is all wrong and they both head down the more performance route, as do we really care if a card uses 100, 150 or 200 watts it is how it performs that counts.

Agree


If I wanted a low power GPU then I would just buy one the lower med range ones..
No high end gamer would pick a GTX 960 over a GTX 980ti because it used less power

 

[Jono8]

Maybe you misunderstand, I heard that the new GP104 will have more power usage than the GM104.

I initially thought well that his nonsense, but I just wondered if what silent scone had heard was similar or in any other way related to AMD's much lower power usage for the Polaris 10.

If GP104 uses more power than GM104 (ie so the 1080 uses more power than the 980 then) then it is going to be loads more powerful in performance terms.

Where have you heard this?

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Differences in processes aside both will give roughly 2x Per/W.
If AMD with the card replacing the 380 are going for half the power, then that gives the same performance, but if NVidia are going for the same power then that gives twice the performance, hence why it could be a massive performance difference. (of course all that is +/- a bit of leeway)
Personally I hope this is all wrong and they both head down the more performance route, as do we really care if a card uses 100, 150 or 200 watts it is how it performs that counts.

Looking at the leaked rumours we have,fully enabled Polaris 10 is a 2560 shader chip running at a higher clockspeed than an R9 390/390X. It probably means around R9 390 to Fury(not Fury X) level performance at 1080P and 2560P but in a card which has the same power envelope as the GTX960.

OFC,I am making the assumption that GCN MK4 has similar performance to GCN1.3 but most of the improvements are aimed at power consumption.

The GP106 seems to be a smaller chip around 200MM2 with a 128 bit memory controller.

If AMD go power usage/value route, and Nvidia go performance, it's truly the beginning of the end for AMD. Nvidia already have such a huge market share, it puts AMD in a different consumer category altogether, one that will potentially alienate a huge percentage of their already small consumer base (relative to Nvidia). I think this will be bad for us all in the long run, given the lack of competition Nvidia will have, so I hope I'm wrong, but it looks like it may be heading that way...

Except Nvidia more or less went that way with Maxwell - all cheaper to make parts with lower power consumption when compared to Kepler with similar or a bit better performance,and the major damage was mostly done by cards like the GTX750TI,GTX960 and GTX970.


These all ended up in OEM desktops and laptops instead of AMD having like 30% to 40% of cards shipped per quarter they went down to around 20% as a result of this.

If you look at the dGPU marketshare figures,AMD has been destroyed in laptops and prebuilt desktops with Maxwell,and this is co-incided with the major drop in sales.

If anything if it means they get far more exposure in OEM laptops and desktop,their marketshare probably will end up growing.

Remember,even with the HD3000 series where ATI could only not even match the third fastest Nvidia card,ie,the 8800GT,they still were at 30% to 40% of units shipped per quarter.

That is because in both laptops and prebuilt desktops they still were reasonably well represented.

No doubt this will be incredibly boring for the crowd who buy £250+ cards,but if AMD can deliver on strong value cards,I think they can still get reasonable sales IMHO.

Remember,Vega is still on the cards for a late 2016 release(probably the end of December) so that is an unknown quantity.

 

[bru]

If GP104 uses more power than GM104 (ie so the 1080 uses more power than the 980 then) then it is going to be loads more powerful in performance terms.

Where have you heard this?

As I stated earlier, it was a friend of mine who told me that he had read that GP104 would use more power than GM104, he couldn't tell me where he read it. so it is completely unreliable and to be taken with a bucket load of salt. I only mentioned it at all because Silent Scone said he heard something that would cause a massive stir with NVidia fans and being that the latest leak/rumour is that AMD have gone down the route of half the power with the chip replacing the 380, if NVidia have gone the other way then it would cause a massive stir.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

As I stated earlier, it was a friend of mine who told me that he had read that GP104 would use more power than GM104, he couldn't tell me where he read it. so it is completely unreliable and to be taken with a bucket load of salt. I only mentioned it at all because Silent Scone said he heard something that would cause a massive stir with NVidia fans and being that the latest leak/rumour is that AMD have gone down the route of half the power with the chip replacing the 380, if NVidia have gone the other way then it would cause a massive stir.

It also means that Nvidia might be loosing mobile marketshare as well - the GP106 chip appears to smaller and has much lower bandwidth than Polaris 10,and if the GP104 ends up being less efficient,it might actually mean it will work out for AMD in terms of laptops and OEM sales. Remember,AMD sales only really started going south in a big way when Maxwell dropped and they not only had a large efficiency advantage but also a massive performance advantage in mobile parts,which they got large laptop and OEM desktop contracts. Nvidia on top of that had cheaper to make parts too in terms of die size and number of RAM chips. In fact that is one of the things which enthusiasts overlooked when compared to Kepler. Every comparable performance Maxwell part was cheaper to make than their Kepler equivalents.

Edit!!

On the flipside AMD will also be having a much older card stack for their top end computer cards too,if Nvidia is pushing full steam ahead with GP100.

 

[Mauller]

TBH, with latest drivers and AMD being able to make use of the GCN hardware better than in the past, the performance and power differences are not that large anymore between current GCN and Maxwell.

 

[bru]

TBH, with latest drivers and AMD being able to make use of the GCN hardware better than in the past, the performance and power differences are not that large anymore between current GCN and Maxwell.

One of the main problems is that card for card AMD is in a bit of a pickle power wise.
If you look at the card stack. ( these are the cards that go against each other performance and price wise)

NV 960 120w £156 vs AMD 380 190w £159

NV 970 145w £240 vs AMD 390 275w £260

NV 980 165w £360 vs AMD 390x 275w £330

The Fury seems to have dried up more or less but is expensive when available 275w £430 (I know there is a good pre order price on here at the moment)
Then you have the excellent Nano with a good bit more performance at similar a price 175w £380 (I'd love to know what a massively down clocked 980ti would consume power wise)

NV 980ti 250w £510 vs AMD FuryX 275w £450


The only really competitive chip AMD have power wise is the latest Fiji, the Nano is a great card now that it has come right down in price.
Hopefully if the leaks/rumours are true AMD will have really good power saving with Polaris, allowing them to catch up with NVidia in that area.

 

[Legend]

I just really hope AMD deliver something special as even die-hard Nvidia fans with zero interest in their offerings will benefit from that competition.

 

[abdidas]

I really hope Polaris will be come through, am tired of Intel/Nvidia domination.

 

[kthula666]

I just really hope AMD deliver something special as even die-hard Nvidia fans with zero interest in their offerings will benefit from that competition.

AMD Rage card under the vega chipset with HBM before the years end would be good.

 

[Tommy_Here]

If current rumors are true and the 980 Ti is getting replaced by a gp104 gpu then Nvidia must have a lot of trust in this chip and it's going to be a lot faster than most people think, who knows it might use GDDR5X and the 980/70 replacement might use standard GDDR5, also note rumors are suggesting it to be GP104-400 notice the 400?
GM200-400 in the titan X was a full chip
GK110-400 in the 780 Ti was a full chip
GM104-400 in the 980 was a full chip
GP104-400 in possibly the x80 Ti is going to be a full chip.... we'll know more information in the coming weeks.
even though mass production has only just started on GDDR5X doesn't there isn't enough for a single card to use these chips whilst the lower end gpus use standard GDDR5

 

[Mtom]

If current rumors are true and the 980 Ti is getting replaced by a gp104 gpu then Nvidia must have a lot of trust in this chip and it's going to be a lot faster than most people think, who knows it might use GDDR5X and the 980/70 replacement might use standard GDDR5, also note rumors are suggesting it to be GP104-400 notice the 400?
GM200-400 in the titan X was a full chip
GK110-400 in the 780 Ti was a full chip
GM104-400 in the 980 was a full chip
GP104-400 in possibly the x80 Ti is going to be a full chip.... we'll know more information in the coming weeks.
even though mass production has only just started on GDDR5X doesn't there isn't enough for a single card to use these chips whilst the lower end gpus use standard GDDR5

Its just another step in milking the NV buyers. Now its a GP104 and they call it Ti so many will buy it as the "top of the line chip". Then around end of the year or early 2017 comes the real top card, so these people will sell off their Tis and buy the new Meganium, or Plationum or whatever it will be called card. Just like they did with the 980-980Ti. The difference is they call it Ti as the first step.

 

[nomadd]

..and buy the new Meganium, or Plationum or whatever it will be called card.

Insanium.

 

[MooMoo444]

Insanium.

'Kashgrab' model.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Nvidia GTX1090TI Titan Ultra Excellence n00b p0wnage edition.

 

[Cooper]

Wouldn't surprise me if 6mths ago this new Ti replacement was originally going to be the 980 replacement until they found out it was too fast just to be a vanilla 980.

They've probably shifted all the cards down by one notch and the 'real deal' Ti will come in Q1 2017.

 

[bru]

Its just another step in milking the NV buyers. Now its a GP104 and they call it Ti so many will buy it as the "top of the line chip". Then around end of the year or early 2017 comes the real top card, so these people will sell off their Tis and buy the new Meganium, or Plationum or whatever it will be called card. Just like they did with the 980-980Ti. The difference is they call it Ti as the first step.

And if AMD do have a higher power variant of Polaris 10, they will do exactly the same thing.

 

[Muzy]

Its just another step in milking the NV buyers. Now its a GP104 and they call it Ti so many will buy it as the "top of the line chip". Then around end of the year or early 2017 comes the real top card, so these people will sell off their Tis and buy the new Meganium, or Plationum or whatever it will be called card. Just like they did with the 980-980Ti. The difference is they call it Ti as the first step.

this comment sums up the entire thread of many pages of noob comments.

 

[muziqaz]

But the thing is, who cares what top end card is using what chip? If 1080ti is let's say 30% faster than 980ti, it will replace 980ti as top of the line card. And whatever months later when they have good enough yields for Titan P, which will be even faster than 1080ti, they will release it as top end card. As long as they are not shafting customers like they used to do with previous titans and 980tis, I don't see any issues there.

 

[HazardO]

Its just another step in milking the NV buyers. Now its a GP104 and they call it Ti so many will buy it as the "top of the line chip". Then around end of the year or early 2017 comes the real top card, so these people will sell off their Tis and buy the new Meganium, or Plationum or whatever it will be called card. Just like they did with the 980-980Ti. The difference is they call it Ti as the first step.

Except the 980Ti wasn't based on GM104.

I expect the 1070 to be just below or just ahead of the 980Ti in performance with much lower power usage, and the 1080 to be upto 20% faster than a 980Ti again with lower power usage, and probably at a slightly lower price point. It makes no sense to continue the 970, 980 and 980Ti under those circumstances.

The 1080Ti will come along at least 6 months after a full fat Titan which will as usual be ludicrously priced, and will be a way of using up parts which didn't yield enough working cores for the Titan.