** The Official Nvidia GeForce 'Pascal' Thread - for general gossip and discussions **

[Jono8]

Its quite scary how that guy in the Nvidia presentation can say once "faster than a titan X" (in one specific area), then the internet within 24 hours is plastered with comments from people 100% convinced that it will be faster than a titan X in everything no problem at all.

I don't think anyone is convinced, I wont be until I see benchmarks but it has more substance than everyone on here going "LOL IT WONT BE FASTER THAN A 980 TI ROFL..." why? "BECAUSE I SAID SO".

If you look at the specs and trust that the 1080 will be 980sli performance (again this makes sense spec wise as well), it would make sense that the 1070 will be around 980Ti/Titan X levels of performance.

 

[Seanspeed]

Well that is debatable. I just watched the segment and just before he brought up the gtx1070 he said about 5 times that the gtx1080 was twice the performance of a Titan X so if you ask me he was reffering to VR in this segment. He could easily cover himself saying it's faster than a Titan X because he never mentioned if it was VR or not.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRxoWkSDhVc

It was in reference to using a 1080 and their simultaneous multiprojection. This is basically a VR technology, though there was some article about how it could help 4k gaming. Essentially, you are rendering multiple views, with the outside percentage of the image in a lower resolution. Really, they'd been working on this for a while and previously called it multiresolution shading. Not actually new.

So, this is useful for VR because you have a really big FoV. And it's not normal for people to use their eyes to look around to the edges of your periphery. Typically, if you want to look at something there, you move your head most of the way and then maybe move your eyes a little bit. In other words, you can get away with a lower resolution on the outside edges because it wont be seen quite as much.

This is less useful for 2D(like with a 4k monitor...) because you will be looking at the edges of the monitor a LOT more than you will in VR since it takes up a much smaller percent of your FoV. I dont know why anybody would want to have a 4k monitor and then render the outsides of the image in low quality. It would look bad, though obviously it'd help performance. I think preferably, you'd simply lower the overall resolution if you really needed the fps that bad.

And in terms of the '2x' figure he was saying, basically it was in comparison to a Titan X NOT using the tech. So a 1080 *using* simultaneous multiprojection is 2x as fast as a Titan X *not using* it.

The reason I'd call this misleading is because from what I understand, a Titan X could use it too and it's not a technology that would be limited to GP104 unless they're using some sort of new hardware feature here that I haven't heard about. So I think this is just a case of putting into context how when *combined*, the new card plus the tech can produce huge gains for VR(or on a monitor if you really wanted to, but I dont think you would).

 

[lumik]

That really is clutching at straws. He clearly starts a new part of the presentation ( ie introduces the 1070). Besides it is rated at 6.5tflops (more than the titan X) so I don't see why it is such wild speculation to believe it will be faster (or at least in the ballpark of titan x performance)

6.5Tflops is still 40% less than 9Tflops on 1080 + DDR5x vs old slow DDR5 on 1070
1080 will also have 25% more bandwidth.The gap will be 30-40%
Either 1080 is more than 40% faster than TITANX(then 1070 will be on par with titanx) or 1080 will be 25% faster than TITANX and 1070 will be slow crap(10-15% above GTX980)

 

[jommy999]

yes they have sneak the price up but people are happy as seem to be bargain from twice as fast as TX .

 

[Legend]

I know, and people are using the new exchange rate. This would put the 1070 starting at £315 and the 1080 at just under £500.

But it won't be £315. On release all we get is Founder's Edition. That's a more expensive card in the first place at $450. So anyone wanting the cheaper non-reference cards will be waiting... and who REALLY thinks anything but the cheapest brands with the cheapest coolers would even think of selling at the base price?? And I HIGHLY doubt they will anyway, nevermind the likes of EVGA and Gigabyte with their superior cooling solutions. £350-400 is where these cards will be at.

 

[Greebo]

You honestly believe that a card which is currently going for £500 new will be able to be bought at more than 60% mark down second hand just months later? Even if you ignore the performance difference between the 980ti and 1070/1080 for one second (which you can't actually ignore anyway), when has this ever happened ever in the history of GPU's?? Prices WILL drop, no question, but some people need a reality check. 1070 won't cost £300, again you're dreaming. Nice dreams admittedly, but a dream nonetheless. £350 MINIMUM, and Founder's Edition will be more.

It has happened before when the 8800GT and 4850 came out. Current second hand values of the previous gen cards almost halved.

All depends on the performance and bang for buck of the new card of course.

 

[GFX-Kid]

I know, and people are using the new exchange rate. This would put the 1070 starting at £315 and the 1080 at just under £500.

You are wasting your time mate. Some people just believe what they want to believe.

I have posted a few times and clearly shown why £200-250 is not an unreasonable price to expect a 980Ti to be worth second hand. Yet people still say, oh but how can a card go from £500+ to half that price in such a small time period.

Then he shamelessly says people offering £200-250 are off their meds. Sigh

 

[Jono8]

But it won't be £315. On release all we get is Founder's Edition. That's a more expensive card in the first place at $450. So anyone wanting the cheaper non-reference cards will be waiting... and who REALLY thinks anything but the cheapest brands with the cheapest coolers would even think of selling at the base price?? And I HIGHLY doubt they will anyway, nevermind the likes of EVGA and Gigabyte with their superior cooling solutions. £350-400 is where these cards will be at.

Says who? you?

I will take historical and previous data paired with the actual official price over someone wailing on an internet forum any day...

We also still do not know officially whether the non founders are being released at the same time or not.

 

[NirK]

Did you know that Tflops is just the amount of shader units x the speed in mhz x 2...

So a Titan X at 1450mhz is also 9 Tflops and also has 336Gb/s 384bit memory bandwidth.

3072 x 1450 x 2 = 9 Tflops

Same as

2560 x 1733 x 2 = 9 tflops on the 1080.

I think Nvidia said that the VR technology with variable resolution will work on maxwell as well.

 

[Legend]

You are wasting your time mate. Some people just believe what they want to believe.

I have posted a few times and clearly shown why £200-250 is not an unreasonable price to expect a 980Ti to be worth second hand. Yet people still say, oh but how can a card go from £500+ to half that price in such a small time period.

Then he shamelessly says people offering £200-250 are off their meds. Sigh

But it IS unreasonable. First of all, they are simply worth more, coupled with the fact no one in their right mind is going to sell at that! Are people expecting miracles from the upcoming benchmarks or something? What's been released so far is impressive, but nothing to justify price drops to the extent you're suggesting.

 

[Seanspeed]

All depends on the performance and bang for buck of the new card of course.

That's what people aren't taking into account enough.

Of course prices will drop. Significantly, too. But they dont drop by set percentages. They drop in accordance to where their new 'place' is in the hierarchy. Just like we saw 970-equivalent cards drop to about 970-equivalent prices after the 970/980 was launched. They didn't start selling for £100 less than the 970.

 

[andybird123]

This is less useful for 2D(like with a 4k monitor...) because you will be looking at the edges of the monitor a LOT more than you will in VR since it takes up a much smaller percent of your FoV. I dont know why anybody would want to have a 4k monitor and then render the outsides of the image in low quality. It would look bad, though obviously it'd help performance. I think preferably, you'd simply lower the overall resolution if you really needed the fps that bad.

One of the use cases they gave was exactly that, the devs at Obduction saying that frame rates jump from ~45fps to over 60 and whilst you can see the difference in still shots, in game / moving you don't notice

I don't know about you, but actually when using a monitor I tend to look mainly towards the middle and use the mouse to look around

the use for VR is not that you never look at the periphery, its that at the moment despite the resolution being 2160x1200, the render target is about 70% higher... with this its not, so it saves you a metric tonne of wasted pixels

 

[melmac]

Linky to this please?

I now want to read this myself...But I think you are making it up for some odd reason...

It was in the presentation. Why would I make it up? And I did say rumour, because until the benchmarks come out we won't know the exact performance.

Somebody who can get the same performance for £50 less?

You honestly believe that a card which is currently going for £500 new will be able to be bought at more than 60% mark down second hand just months later? Even if you ignore the performance difference between the 980ti and 1070/1080 for one second (which you can't actually ignore anyway), when has this ever happened ever in the history of GPU's?? Prices WILL drop, no question, but some people need a reality check. 1070 won't cost £300, again you're dreaming. Nice dreams admittedly, but a dream nonetheless. £350 MINIMUM, and Founder's Edition will be more.

Replying to both these quotes. This isn't like the last few card releases, where there was no compelling reason to upgrade. There are quite a few people who have been waiting for the die shrink to upgrade.

Saying those who want the same performance for £50 isn't exactly right. There are so many ways the 1070 will be better, new features, more memory, better Dx12 performance, much better VR performance, true audio etc.

Can you really see people paying £500 for a new 980Ti if the 1070 is faster, cheaper and more features? They won't stay at £500 for long. I can see them dropping by £200 very quickly.

You say I need a reality check? The reality check is needed for those people who are foolish enough to pay £300+ for a 980Ti now.

 

[Legend]

Then he shamelessly says people offering £200-250 are off their meds. Sigh

I actually said anyone offering £200 is crazy... £50 isn't pocket change, and £250 is PERHAPS possible in time (not yet though) for the cards that were cheaper in the first place. Not going to happen for the Classified, Hybrid's etc though. Given the 1080/1070 FE is replacing the Reference in the line-up at a premium price now though, it will help the value of the reference 980/980Ti for people who want SLI, as reference cards are always going to be the best choice in that regard.

Can you really see people paying £500 for a new 980Ti if the 1070 is faster, cheaper and more features? They won't stay at £500 for long. I can see them dropping by £200 very quickly.

You say I need a reality check? The reality check is needed for those people who are foolish enough to pay £300+ for a 980Ti now.

I agree £300 is far more realistic. Big difference between that and £200 as several are suggesting. Buying a 980Ti now is a bit of a silly move I agree, given prices will obviously drop, but there are people who need to be a TAD more realistic about how much and what exactly they will be getting at the bottom price.

 

[Sasahara]

But it won't be £315. On release all we get is Founder's Edition. That's a more expensive card in the first place at $450. So anyone wanting the cheaper non-reference cards will be waiting... and who REALLY thinks anything but the cheapest brands with the cheapest coolers would even think of selling at the base price?? And I HIGHLY doubt they will anyway, nevermind the likes of EVGA and Gigabyte with their superior cooling solutions. £350-400 is where these cards will be at.

Where did you get the idea the Founders Edition is the only one out on the 27th?

Both prices were listed and one date below it.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2016-nvidia-unveils-gtx-1080-and-gtx-1070

 

[andybird123]

It was in the presentation. Why would I make it up? And I did say rumour, because until the benchmarks come out we won't know the exact performance.

Replying to both these quotes. This isn't like the last few card releases, where there was no compelling reason to upgrade. There are quite a few people who have been waiting for the die shrink to upgrade.

Saying those who want the same performance for £50 isn't exactly right. There are so many ways the 1070 will be better, new features, more memory, better Dx12 performance, much better VR performance, true audio etc.

Can you really see people paying £500 for a new 980Ti if the 1070 is faster, cheaper and more features? They won't stay at £500 for long. I can see them dropping by £200 very quickly.

You say I need a reality check? The reality check is needed for those people who are foolish enough to pay £300+ for a 980Ti now.

most of the "extra features" announced are coming to Maxwell as well(or in fact were already announced for maxwell)

 

[NirK]

You say I need a reality check? The reality check is needed for those people who are foolish enough to pay £300+ for a 980Ti now.

Not really if the 1070 (likely) works out to be slower than a 980ti at 1440p. If an overclocked 980ti still beats a 1070 then it will not go down as much as you think. If people want a 1080p card then the 1070 might be better, if people want 1440p or another for 980ti SLI then there is still a market for it above the 1070. If the 1070 conclusively beats the 980ti then it will be different, but if you look at the specs etc...... the 1070 pretty much looks like a tweaked 980 at 1733mhz.

 

[Legend]

Not really if the 1070 (likely) works out to be slower than a 980ti at 1440p. If an overclocked 980ti still beats a 1070 then it will not go down as much as you think. If people want a 1080p card then the 1070 might be better, if people want 1440p or another for 980ti SLI then there is still a market for it above the 1070.

We obviously need to wait for benchmarks to see how the 1070 stacks up, but what you suggest is certainly a possibility. Here's hoping the 1070 utilises all its RAM this time haha!

 

[Rids]

So this looks like the first card release in quite a while to garner genuine excitement - might finally be time to get rid of the SLI 780's.

 

[Seanspeed]

One of the use cases they gave was exactly that, the devs at Obduction saying that frame rates jump from ~45fps to over 60 and whilst you can see the difference in still shots, in game / moving you don't notice

I don't know about you, but actually when using a monitor I tend to look mainly towards the middle and use the mouse to look around

Oh you'll still notice it in-game plenty. You dont stare at the middle of the screen the entire time at all. Unless you've got some gigantic monitor or have your face stuck up to the screen, you will use your eyes to scan around the image plenty as it's all within a fairly comfortable range for eye movement and is easier than moving your head.

the use for VR is not that you never look at the periphery, its that at the moment despite the resolution being 2160x1200, the render target is about 70% higher... with this its not, so it saves you a metric tonne of wasted pixels

It's the exact same principle, though. You're saving on pixels rendered. The difference is that in VR, you have a huge FoV, so you can *get away* with having a lesser rendered resolution on the outside edges since you wont be looking there as much directly. It will still be blurrier than the center if you look for it. The whole reason you've got a 1.4x higher resolution render in VR is because you *need* to for the barrel distortion and still have the edges look clear. If you lower the resolution on those edges, things will not be stretched or anything, the warping will have done its job, but those outsides edges will be blurry again.