** The Official Nvidia GeForce 'Pascal' Thread - for general gossip and discussions **

[melmac]

I agree £300 is far more realistic. Big difference between that and £200 as several are suggesting. Buying a 980Ti now is a bit of a silly move I agree, given prices will obviously drop, but there are people who need to be a TAD more realistic about how much and what exactly they will be getting at the bottom price.

If the price of new 980Ti's drop to £300 then surely £200-£250 would be a reasonable offer for a second hand one?

 

[Seanspeed]

nevermind

 

[andybird123]

It's the exact same principle, though. You're saving on pixels rendered. The difference is that in VR, you have a huge FoV, so you can *get away* with having a lesser rendered resolution on the outside edges since you wont be looking there as much directly. It will still be blurrier than the center if you look for it. The whole reason you've got a 1.4x higher resolution render in VR is because you *need* to for the barrel distortion and still have the edges look clear. If you lower the resolution on those edges, things will not be stretched or anything, the warping will have done its job, but those outsides edges will be blurry again.

oh my god, no, you are missing the point
using this mulitprojection the distortion is done BEFORE the rendering, so the outside edges will look exactly the same, its just the pixels rendered will match the pixels on the display, so none are wasted

you could see this on the demo they showed, the fps jumped from 60 to 90 without getting blurry edges

 

[melmac]

nevermind

yes, but, new 980Ti's won't sell if they are more expensive than a 1070.

 

[Legend]

If the price of new 980Ti's drop to £300 then surely £200-£250 would be a reasonable offer for a second hand one?

I think £300 for the basic 980Ti in a few months is possible. It will ENTIRELY depend on both the price of the 1070 and how it compares in performance at 1440p and above with the Ti. These two factors will be key in determining the value new and second hand. It is really too early to call at this stage, but I am very much of the view that £200 just won't happen for a LONG time, unless the 1070 absolutely destroys the Ti and comes in at £299. Neither of which is remotely realistic based on what we already know. I am still convinced the 1070 will be a penny less than £350 if we're lucky, for base models. But miracles can happen...

 

[TwsT]

If the price of new 980Ti's drop to £300 then surely £200-£250 would be a reasonable offer for a second hand one?

i don't think new 980 ti's will drop dramatically to £300 unless a vendor has like 1,000 stashed away.

Chances are most companies stock will be low enough that they can leave the price up there and hold on to a couple for "RMA Replacements" Only companies with loads of stock might be tempted to price slash.

 

[old gamer]

Second hand graphics cards are like anything else, there only worth what people are willing to pay

 

[Seanspeed]

oh my god, no, you are missing the point
using this mulitprojection the distortion is done BEFORE the rendering, so the outside edges will look exactly the same, its just the pixels rendered will match the pixels on the display, so none are wasted

No, I understand it all quite well.

And no, the edges will not look the exact same. It's not an exact culling of all wasted pixels. You reduce the penalty of *some* of the culled pixels, but much of the image is still there and without supersampling, the outside edges WILL look blurry. That's the point of taking a supersampled image before warping. So you still have good resultant pixel density in the more extreme warped areas on the edges.

You could do a very minor % with the multireprojection to keep the edges looking as clear as possible(lenses obviously still dont help), but you also minimize the performance gain from it. The more extreme you go, the more you're affecting visible parts of the render output and the more performance you get from it. I would guess that in the example used, they are rendering some 50% of the pre-buffer render at a lower resolution(at what % of lower resolution they dont say, which also matters) to get the sort of gains they are claiming. And this will ABSOLUTELY affect a noticeable part of your usable FoV.

 

[melmac]

i don't think new 980 ti's will drop dramatically to £300 unless a vendor has like 1,000 stashed away.

Chances are most companies stock will be low enough that they can leave the price up there and hold on to a couple for "RMA Replacements" Only companies with loads of stock might be tempted to price slash.

Ah, thanks for the reply. So they will be keeping the price artificially inflated so they can keep the stock for RMA replacements, rather than sell the stock at low price?

 

[andybird123]

No, I understand it all quite well.

And no, the edges will not look the exact same. It's not an exact culling of all wasted pixels. You reduce the penalty of *some* of the culled pixels, but much of the image is still there and without supersampling, the outside edges WILL look blurry.

You could do a very minor % with the multireprojection to keep the edges looking as clear as possible(lenses obviously still dont help), but you also minimize the performance gain from it. The more extreme you go, the more you're affecting visible parts of the render output and the more performance you get from it. I would guess that in the example used, they are rendering some 50% of the pre-buffer render at a lower resolution(at what % of lower resolution they dont say, which also matters) to get the sort of gains they are claiming. And this will ABSOLUTELY affect a noticeable part of your usable FoV.

the demo they showed argues otherwise - the image up on the screen had the same clarity edge to edge

 

[Simon Belmont]

i don't think new 980 ti's will drop dramatically to £300 unless a vendor has like 1,000 stashed away.

Chances are most companies stock will be low enough that they can leave the price up there and hold on to a couple for "RMA Replacements" Only companies with loads of stock might be tempted to price slash.

Well good luck trying to sell them at a high price. You'll have to drop prices either way once 1000 series releases.

 

[Legend]

Second hand graphics cards are like anything else, there only worth what people are willing to pay

It will take a unique set of circumstances for bottom to fall out of the 980Ti and see its price utterly plummet as some people are suggesting. If that does happen you will find most people just keep them... VERY few people are going to be willing to take £300 loss on a card just months after they bought it! That being the case, you won't find many for sale. And what will that do? A buyer's market becomes a seller's one.

 

[Seanspeed]

the demo they showed argues otherwise - the image up on the screen had the same clarity edge to edge

This is something that is going to be visible in-person when playing on a screen right in front of you, or wearing an actual headset. Telling resolution differences with off-screen footage is always extremely difficult.

 

[andybird123]

This is something that is going to be visible in-person when playing on a screen right in front of you, or wearing an actual headset. Telling resolution differences with off-screen footage is always extremely difficult.

I have one. I know the difference between a screen image and headset one, but it would affect the edge to edge clarity in the same way. If the image being rendered was affected as badly as you say, you would still be able to see the difference at the edges on screen as well as in the headset.

 

[izit]

Anyone know when the 1060 may be announced/released? Not heard anything about it!

 

[Seanspeed]

I have one. I know the difference between a screen image and headset one, but it would affect the edge to edge clarity in the same way. If the image being rendered was affected as badly as you say, you would still be able to see the difference at the edges on screen as well as in the headset.

Where is this video exactly? Either this is something entirely different or something was not being represented properly.

 

[andybird123]

during the livestream, its on youtube, or here is a still image from the same

https://twitter.com/NVIDIAGeForce/status/728770647178891265

don't forget, nvidia multiprojection for VR doesn't just include rendering sections at lower resolution it also renders both eyes concurrently so there is an efficiency saving there as well, hence why they are able to hit 50% increase in FPS for maybe only a 30% saving on resoultion, so the render target becomes maybe 130% instead of 170%, with no loss in clarity

 

[sprite-]

It will take a unique set of circumstances for bottom to fall out of the 980Ti and see its price utterly plummet as some people are suggesting. If that does happen you will find most people just keep them... VERY few people are going to be willing to take £300 loss on a card just months after they bought it! That being the case, you won't find many for sale. And what will that do? A buyer's market becomes a seller's one.

It all comes down to two things, supply and demand.

Regardless of whether supply is low, if the demand isn't there then it's relevant.

While many are still speculating on 1070/1080 performance, which i think is pointless until we see proper reviews / benchmarks because it's entirely in Nvidia's interest to hype a new product coming to market...

If on the 17th we wake up to a world where the 1070 is "as fast" or "faster" than a 980Ti *and* it comes in at around the £300-£350 price point, then £200 for a 980Ti is not unrealistic, if anything quite probable.

Aside from the odd sale to people who are unaware of the 1070, nobody is going to pay anything close to that for a 980Ti. It just wouldn't make sense.

It's always best to buy cards at the start of their life-cycle, not the end. Anyone who purchased a 980Ti in the last 1-2 months with all the pretty credible indications that something new is on the horizon really needs to think a little more. A friend of mine was and i advised him to instead buy a 290x 2nd hand and wait, which he did and is now relieved. Now he'll be able to resell that card for a relatively small loss and use the money banked to upgrade to a 1080.

Same applies for most technology, you don't buy a brand new iPhone or Macbook when you know an Apple keynote is just around the corner.

 

[GFX-Kid]

But it IS unreasonable. First of all, they are simply worth more, coupled with the fact no one in their right mind is going to sell at that! Are people expecting miracles from the upcoming benchmarks or something? What's been released so far is impressive, but nothing to justify price drops to the extent you're suggesting.

You are clutching at straws now

I have explained step by step why the 1070 will force the 980Ti value to drop and why the offer of £200 is not unreasonable for second hand merchandise and you can see why people are making such offers.

Instead of explaining why the reasons I have given won't make the difference in the price I think they will, you just say things like because they are "worth more" and it is "unreasonable"...Lol.

Come on man...

 

[glenimp617]

well if anyone can sell their 980ti for £300+ then bite their hands off