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** The Official Nvidia GeForce 'Pascal' Thread - for general gossip and discussions **

drunkenmaster said:
This is where the consumer fails, badly.

...

Consumers need to inform themselves even marginally then pay a fair price and not pay more just because said company wants them to.

Think of it like this, if the Titan/ti card came out first then Nvidia would never price the 1080 above $400-450 at all. Consider the whole range of cards there will be, where the 1080 fits in and where the cost of the top and low end cards will be and then consider what seems fair for a 1080.

More to the point, once the big core is out Nvidia will be selling the 1080 exactly where they always intended to sell it. The 1080/70 will be a healthily profitable card for Nvidia in the $300-400 range, so why pay more when that is where Nvidia designed and intend to sell it.
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Indeed. And some folks are saying there might not be a 1080ti/Titan Pascal. Really? Whether there will or won't be, it's in Nvidia best interests to make as much profit from the 1080 as they can before they have to inevitably lower the price.

Right now, it's mainly just for folks who are impatient about getting a new card or those who are willing to SLI for good 4k/1440p. Their impatience > their wallet. Which is fine, people have the right to spend their money however they want (even if it isn't the best for them). But they might be the ones feeling a bit bad when the 1080ti/Titan releases with a ton more performance and 1080 prices become more reasonable. One only has themself to blame if one has regret.

But hey, at least they can say that they had amazing performance much sooner than the folks waiting for the bigger cards. And if I'm honest, anyone on a single 970 or below will be getting a big boost to performance. Though if I were impatient with my 970, I'd rather buy the 1070 instead and maybe go SLI if I needed the extra grunt. Not to say that the 1070 won't have early adopters+UK tax too.

970 to 1070 makes more sense, though someone said that Nvidia are disabling a quarter of it. If it's anything like the 970 relative to 980, then even with a little price-gouging it would still be the better option. If not (and it's not as well performing as we'd expect), then it would be obvious that Nvidia are prioritising 1080 sales and profit from that.
 
easyrider said:
No

But the 1080 is the same price as the 980ti was on release so nothing has changed...
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Nothing changed except the 980ti is a 600mm^2 core that costs significantly more for Nvidia to make than a 1080 at around the 320mm^2 mark. The 1080 inherently costs significantly less money to produce and is profitable at a far far lower cost than the 980ti.

Once the 980ti is out Nvidia will sell 1080 at their actually designed to fill price point of sub $400 range. When the 1080 came out, the 980ti didn't suddenly drop to $350 and Nvidia will not produce a large core to sell at that price because it would become unprofitable to do so.

Nothing changed, no, this is the 680gtx all over again, where was that priced once Titan/780ti came out? That is where Nvidia always intended for that card to be sold and had Titan/780ti come out first it is the only price Nvidia would ever have sold the 680gtx.
 
drunkenmaster said:
Nothing changed except the 980ti is a 600mm^2 core that costs significantly more for Nvidia to make than a 1080 at around the 320mm^2 mark. The 1080 inherently costs significantly less money to produce and is profitable at a far far lower cost than the 980ti.

Once the 980ti is out Nvidia will sell 1080 at their actually designed to fill price point of sub $400 range. When the 1080 came out, the 980ti didn't suddenly drop to $350 and Nvidia will not produce a large core to sell at that price because it would become unprofitable to do so.

Nothing changed, no, this is the 680gtx all over again, where was that priced once Titan/780ti came out? That is where Nvidia always intended for that card to be sold and had Titan/780ti come out first it is the only price Nvidia would ever have sold the 680gtx.
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R and D cost money. NV are a business...

Whats not to get?
 
Give it a couple of years and even the low end budget cards will be £300 "joking of course " but you never know at this rate with nvidia ..

Its not right period the 1080 should be in at 980 prices or there about ...this founders thing is to create a wider gap so to increase there asking prices much easier..when the partners come in ..

I do not think the partners boards are going to be a £100 cheaper or £50 ..yes better boards for sure ect but the price gap as been opened so they can fit in nicely without coming straight in there with the high price & with out the founders ....basically the founders cards is there as a buffer to make the price for the partners boards not look so bad......
 
When the ti version comes out for £700 I'll have to laugh as the same people try and justify it by saying 'but it's faster than the last one' :p

You really couldn't make this stuff up.
 
easyrider said:
That doesn't matter...Its faster than a 384 bit chip with more cores...

Forget the specs...

Its all about the speed...
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The 980 was faster than last gen (SPEED) but wasn't sold at 780ti prices.

The 1080 is being sold and 1080ti prices.
 
IvanDobskey said:
When the ti version comes out for £700 I'll have to laugh as the same people try and justify it by saying 'but it's faster than the last one' :p
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I'm not justifying or defending NV here.

You want the best you gotta pay for it.

That's the bottom line. Either you do or you don't..


The Titan X was 1K

Nothing is new here
 
GFX-Kid said:
As predicted, it would not take long for someone to say that, missing the whole point of what is being discussed :p

Where your logic seems to fail is price for performance. Imagine if the price went up as the performance went up. Buying a top end graphics card today would be like buying a house.

Next... :D
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Exactly, nail on the head

But some people with more money than sense will just pay whatever the cost.
 
easyrider said:
That doesn't matter...Its faster than a 384 bit chip with more cores...

Forget the specs...

Its all about the speed...
Click to expand...

This is overclocker's. When the full potential of the 1080 and 980ti are shown it's not great. Hopefully when Vega/Big Pascal arrive this will plummet down to where it should be. It's not a bad card but the price makes it rubbish bang for buck compared to last gen. Remember this is a node drop release which makes it even worse. Maxwell on the same node performs better than Kepler.
 
Bang for buck gets worse with every gen.

Price goes up every time, performance increase gets smaller.

Suckers keep buying though, so the trend continues.

This is exactly why I buy my cards from the members market these days.
 
drunkenmaster said:
This is where the consumer fails, badly.

It's this simple, fixed wafer pricing, more cores per wafer the smaller the core is, wafers don't cost an absurd amount. 980ti quite literally costs 110-120% more to make than a 980, as a 1080ti will cost that much more than a 1080 to make. 1080 is a medium sized core and costs Nvidia dramatically less to make.

Consumers need to inform themselves even marginally then pay a fair price and not pay more just because said company wants them to.

Think of it like this, if the Titan/ti card came out first then Nvidia would never price the 1080 above $400-450 at all. Consider the whole range of cards there will be, where the 1080 fits in and where the cost of the top and low end cards will be and then consider what seems fair for a 1080.

More to the point, once the big core is out Nvidia will be selling the 1080 exactly where they always intended to sell it. The 1080/70 will be a healthily profitable card for Nvidia in the $300-400 range, so why pay more when that is where Nvidia designed and intend to sell it.
Click to expand...

*** ! This has been going on for some time now, enough is enough, vote with your wallet and stop paying Nvidia's fat cats their bonuses.

You cannot compare 1080 with a 980TI - the latter is infinitely more complex to design and fab out than 1080. The price increase for 1080 is absurd and when I see muppets proclaiming - whatever it takes for the speed z0mg! - it just reminds me why NV has been price gouging for the past few generations. I totally agree with IvanDobskey regarding the situation with NV and UK consumers etc.

The 1080TI will be most likely 700-800£ , the same muppets will once again justify the price, we get it - whatever it takes (right babe ? haha)
 
easyrider said:
R and D cost money. NV are a business...

Whats not to get?
Click to expand...

Nvidia designed THIS core to be profitable in the $300-400 range, that is profitable with regards to covering R&D costs, everything extra they are ripping people off for is just gravy.

This is a dramatically smaller core than the 980ti and has no business being priced anywhere near it.

There will be similar profit on a $350 1080 as a $600 Titan whatever they call it. This is them just extracting an idiot tax from those with on self control and those who buy stuff for status as much as anything else.

This is even before you get into the fact that a PCB for a 600mm^2 core with a 384bit bus and a higher TDP has more layers, costs more to produce, has more traces, more parts. Everything apart from the core itself cost more on a 980ti, not just the direct bit Nvidia makes a profit on.

If you were looking at prebuilt PCs, one has a 200 expensive quad channel mobo and a hex core chip, would you expect a new system with a 100 cheaper dual channel mobo and a cheaper quad core chip to cost the same as the older expensive system just because it was marginally faster? No, the quad core is smaller and costs less, a Kaby Lake quad core will cost less than a I don't even know what chip, Sandybridge-e, because it's smaller. The overall system cost will be lower because it takes a cheaper motherboard, it requires less cooling because it's a lower tdp chip, etc, etc.

Everything about the 1080 will be cheaper than a 980ti, even if you ignored the Nvidia part of the profit, you're paying the same for a much less complex pcb(mobo).
 
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In terms of pricing people need to be looking at the 980 and the 1080. The 980 could be had for £420 at launch. The 1080 is going to be c£620.

That's an increase of a third. That is monumental price creep and it sucks total balls. If it carries on this way and AMD don't offer up viable competition, then eventually you will be paying £1000 for the 'mid tier' cards at launch. ****ing bonkers.
 
IvanDobskey said:
Bang for buck gets worse with every gen.

Price goes up every time, performance increase gets smaller.

Suckers keep buying though, so the trend continues.

This is exactly why I buy my cards from the members market.
Click to expand...

GTX 1080 offers a much larger performance increase over the GTX 980 Ti than the GTX 980 did over the GTX 780 Ti. It's still not good enough to justify that price though, imho, but I assume people are still going to buy them because 619£ is nothing to a lot of people.
 
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