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***The Official Ray Tracing Thread - Read the First Post before posting***

Nexus18 said:
Yup we really need the next gen gpus for UE 5 titles tbh, even 4090 isn't holding up great, some UE 5 games are better than others though but still, gpus are starting to show their age with these newer engines.
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I don't think it's the GPU tech right now, as a 4090 is more than capable of triple figure framerates , my point was that path tracing gives better performance in those games than just RT enabled in UE5 in games like Descendant - Which indicates poor optimisation still in UE by devs of those games, whilst other games that use hybrid RT like Still Wakes the Deep run at triple fps even with DLAA thanks to excellent optimisation. Hellblade 2 is the same as well and that had some amazing particle effects and use of Nanite/Lumen.
 
mrk said:
I don't think it's the GPU tech right now, as a 4090 is more than capable of triple figure framerates , my point was that path tracing gives better performance in those games than just RT enabled in UE5 in games like Descendant - Which indicates poor optimisation still in UE by devs of those games, whilst other games that use hybrid RT like Still Wakes the Deep run at triple fps even with DLAA thanks to excellent optimisation. Hellblade 2 is the same as well and that had some amazing particle effects and use of Nanite/Lumen.
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It's both imo. Hellblade 2 is incredibly hard hitting as well, even without RT. Isn't still wakes deep pretty linear/tunnel like?

Funny thing is vram usage optimisation is incredible in UE 5 though :cry:

2 main UE 5 games I can think of that run pretty well are palworld and robocop but they're both quite basic and linear when compared to something like cp 2077.
 
Hellblade 2 runs at triple figure framerates regardless of upscaling being used, so no it's very well optimised between all these UE5 games I've been playing lately. Still Wakes is linear yes, but it's using a lot of Nanite/Lumen all the same.
 
mrk said:
Hellblade 2 runs at triple figure framerates regardless of upscaling being used, so no it's very well optimised between all these UE5 games I've been playing lately. Still Wakes is linear yes, but it's using a lot of Nanite/Lumen all the same.
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On a 4090, sure.... :p but it's pretty poor performance on most gpus. Hellblade 2 is also pretty linear/small too.
 
That's what I'm saying, on a 4090 First Descendant runs crap until you enable frame gen, only then does the framerate exceed 100fps, otherwise it's 60fps or less lol. That's poor optimisation, meanwhile those other UE5 games run well above 60fps even with DLAA.

The real UE5 truth will be next month with Wukong, the first UE5 game with path tracing. I fully expect it to run like Cyberpunk/Alan Wake 2, aka 100fps at 4K utilising all the RTX tech properly.
 
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mrk said:
That's what I'm saying, on a 4090 First Descendant runs crap until you enable frame gen, only then does the framerate exceed 100fps, otherwise it's 60fps or less lol. That's poor optimisation, meanwhile those other UE5 games run well above 60fps even with DLAA.
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Hellblade 2 barely breaks 60 fps on a 4090 without upscaling iirc? Not sure I would say that is well optimised although compared to first descendant, yes better optimised but doesn't mean it is good still.... Robocop and palworld are the only 2 UE 5 games I know of that run that I would consider well.
 
I re-downloaded all 47GB just to do this :p

This is with the letterbox removal hax btw, so performance is even lower. Out of the box it's 70+ fps at ultrawide 4K.


DLAA at 4K still averaging much higher fps than the 37fps I saw on First Descendant whilst staring at a wall lol. And Hellblade 2's sub 60fps is way more responsive with the mouse than the visible lag on Descendant as well. It seems to have mouse RAW input and Reflex properly implemented. But we're talking 4K here, so naturally you wouldn't be using meagre DLAA anyway as DLSS is just better, Quality ramps it up to the high 70s average, whilst Performance takes it to 100fps, Frame Gen then takes it to over 140fps. All settings have smooth frame and mouse motion, unlike in other UE5 games at 4K when matching the settings like for like.

Robocop is very linear with photogrammetry lashed everywhere, that's the only reason it looks good, otherwise it doesn't use any of the advanced stuff from UE5 to run poorly anyway.
 
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mrk said:
Even on the Low GFX preset (just keeping PT on) Cyberpunk looks amazing still:

https://imgsli.com/MjgyOTY3/5/3



Hilarious how LOW is only 3fps faster mind :cry:
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That because there's nothing there to show any difference. The game itself doesn't have any option anyway for a higher number of rays/pixel, more bounces, increased distance from PT, responsivnes in reflections and shadows, etc.
 
No my comparison is with RT on max with psycho RT Lighting and PT, the only differenc ein the comp above is that the GFX preset in game is set to Low and compared to max - The level of RT and PT is exactly the same which shows the differences vs say Raster, aka this combo:

4K DLSS Perf + FG // LOW vs MAX - Imgsli

imgsli.com

Here we see that Max GFX settings in raster looks like a last gen game, whereas Low GFX preset with PT still looks like a next gen game, regardless of the GFX settings being on the lowest.
 
mrk said:
No my comparison is with RT on max with psycho RT Lighting and PT, the only differenc ein the comp above is that the GFX preset in game is set to Low and compared to max - The level of RT and PT is exactly the same which shows the differences vs say Raster, aka this combo:

4K DLSS Perf + FG // LOW vs MAX - Imgsli

imgsli.com

Here we see that Max GFX settings in raster looks like a last gen game, whereas Low GFX preset with PT still looks like a next gen game, regardless of the GFX settings being on the lowest.
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Just friKKing INSANE. The difference is crazy!
Raster really are Dead FK boring and shall vanish IMHO!!
 
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mrk said:
No my comparison is with RT on max with psycho RT Lighting and PT, the only differenc ein the comp above is that the GFX preset in game is set to Low and compared to max - The level of RT and PT is exactly the same which shows the differences vs say Raster, aka this combo:

4K DLSS Perf + FG // LOW vs MAX - Imgsli

imgsli.com

Here we see that Max GFX settings in raster looks like a last gen game, whereas Low GFX preset with PT still looks like a next gen game, regardless of the GFX settings being on the lowest.
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Last I've tried, the usual settings which work in raster, for shadows and reflections do not affect the image with path tracing or RT. Those are working under their own fixed settings. In RT you can control de complexity of GI, if you have shadows or reflections ON, but that's about it.

Fog and clouds details / volumetric effects should be influenced by the settings, but do not appear in your scene. Pedestrian density is also meaningless and there is no difference for the texture quality. LOD perhaps would impact somewhat the quality and density of assets of all sorts, but probably not in a meaningful way.

So yeah, there isn't much you can change since different values are fixed for PT / RT that COULD and WOULD make a difference. :)

With raster is more complicated. Worth keeping in mind that CB2077 won't be the best case scenario for it. At the same time, is not for RT/PT either.
 
Which kind of makes sense since PT is doing all of the lighting and shadow rendering as well as relfections. The GFX settings once PT is enabled only really affects volumetrics/texture fidelity, draw distance density etc.

Here's an interesting comparison with some eye watering numbers, someone on reddit asked so I did a quick test:

Max GFX settings, 3840x2160 output, No FG, DLAA - Max PT: 21 fps

Max GFX settings, 3840x2160 output, No FG, DLAA - Max RT (Psycho RT Lighting): 36 fps

Max GFX settings, 3840x2160 output, No FG, DLAA - Raster: 50 fps

Max GFX settings, 3840x2160 output, FG, DLSS Performance - Max PT: 106 fps

Max GFX settings, 3840x2160 output, FG, DLSS Performance - Raster: 191 fps


Here's a video of the above scene cycling these settings too:


Notice the IQ difference between DLAA with no Frame Gen vs DLSS Perf with Frame Gen? Yeah there is barely much difference p

There is some image quality drop using Ultra Performance though but it's still clean enough to enjoy high fidelity and smooth visuals when using DLSS 3.7 and Preset E and you can lock out. In Ultra Performance if I play the video back and zoom in 200% you can see some ghosting on distant NPCs but not nearby ones, as well as cars driving off into the distance.

With DLSS Performance the ghosting is greatly reduced for distant cars/NPCs and again, gotta zoom 200% to notice them properly.

At 4K DLSS Performance is the way to go for sure.
 
At SIGGRAPH 2024, NVIDIA presented new technology called Real-Time Neural Appearance Models, a "complete real-time neural materials system" that aims to add film-like quality to real-time visuals while dramatically improving shading performance versus traditional rendering. Translation: In-game objects will look better than ever.
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www.tweaktown.com

NVIDIA's new game-changing AI tech could shape the future of game visuals and rendering

It might not sound as catchy as DLSS, but NVIDIA's Real-Time Neural Appearance Models are here to make games look better and run faster.
www.tweaktown.com www.tweaktown.com


And the juicy bit...

And suppose you're not a fan of the performance hit that comes from ray-tracing. In that case, NVIDIA notes that its Real-Time Neural Appearance Models technology is also suitable and more efficient at creating "baked" lighting and material properties "offline" for real-time graphics running on lower-end hardware. So it will save game developers time, too, a win-win.
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On a side note, not really RT specifically but NV related:

 
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mrk said:
www.tweaktown.com

NVIDIA's new game-changing AI tech could shape the future of game visuals and rendering

It might not sound as catchy as DLSS, but NVIDIA's Real-Time Neural Appearance Models are here to make games look better and run faster.
www.tweaktown.com www.tweaktown.com


And the juicy bit...



On a side note, not really RT specifically but NV related:

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OMG. This spells Game over AM-whooo!
nVidia are just insane. Im sure Mr Huang are from a Galay far far away, and his minions are just sending the tech over - damn it wouldent suprise me!

Wonder if any you guys can get hold of those glasses, they used in the Awesome movie "They Live" so we can get a closer look. Shall we ? :D
 
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