Soldato
The Official 'The Dark Knight Rises' Spoiler Discussion Thread...
- Thread starter SixTwoSix
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I just read my post back and it was awfully written.Sorry, are you agreeing with me or agreeing with the person I quoted?
I used Bain because someone else in this thread did.I come to this from the film side of things, never been into comics which is probably why I don't have the dislike of the film that some people seem to!
I was agreeing with you, the authors points were absolutely awful
I just watched it again, and I am virtually certain that this whole dream thing is nonsense, and I will explain why...
First of all, there is nothing to outright suggest that Albert seeing Bruce at the end was a dream. Second, Lucius discovering that Bruce had fixed the autopilot in the Bat. It was either an attempt to open up the possibility that Bruce survived, or one to suggest that Bruce willingly gave his life when he could have survived. The former is much more plausible, and it's naturally what most watchers would assume, I would have thought. Next, you see Gordon on the roof of the MCU, when he notices that the Bat signal has been repaired, he quite obviously has no idea who has done it, and is looking around trying to work out who fixed it. Who would have done it, but Bruce? Lastly, why on Earth would Alfred be seeing Selina Kyle with Bruce if they weren't actually there? The last Alfred heard of Selina, she had stolen Martha Wayne's pearls and was a master thief...
All in all, I think the whole idea is ridiculous, and there's no evidence to support it, just blind wishing to see things that aren't there.
First of all, there is nothing to outright suggest that Albert seeing Bruce at the end was a dream. Second, Lucius discovering that Bruce had fixed the autopilot in the Bat. It was either an attempt to open up the possibility that Bruce survived, or one to suggest that Bruce willingly gave his life when he could have survived. The former is much more plausible, and it's naturally what most watchers would assume, I would have thought. Next, you see Gordon on the roof of the MCU, when he notices that the Bat signal has been repaired, he quite obviously has no idea who has done it, and is looking around trying to work out who fixed it. Who would have done it, but Bruce? Lastly, why on Earth would Alfred be seeing Selina Kyle with Bruce if they weren't actually there? The last Alfred heard of Selina, she had stolen Martha Wayne's pearls and was a master thief...
All in all, I think the whole idea is ridiculous, and there's no evidence to support it, just blind wishing to see things that aren't there.
One thing that got me, and which is currently ruining the film for me is that Bane's whole evil plan about how the worst form of despair is created by giving people a bit of hope and then taking it away just didnt play out in the film.
Why did Talia not just blow up Gotham straight away? Why did she not blow it up when she could see things were starting to go wrong and Batman was back.
When were they going to offer Gotham that ray of hope and then declare that they are all doomed, thus completing their plan to spread despair amongst the people of Gotham?
The whole 5 month thing seemed entirely pointless did it not?
The whole "bad guy plan" just seemed to be there to give Batman enough time to regain his strength, escape and save the day.
If there is one thing i can't overlook in a film, it is entirely moronic bad guys.
The Dark Knight's story and also the Joker's plot was vastly better.
If you actually sit down and think about the TDKR plot, or at least the bad guys plot, it is entirely stupid.
Why did Talia not just blow up Gotham straight away? Why did she not blow it up when she could see things were starting to go wrong and Batman was back.
When were they going to offer Gotham that ray of hope and then declare that they are all doomed, thus completing their plan to spread despair amongst the people of Gotham?
The whole 5 month thing seemed entirely pointless did it not?
The whole "bad guy plan" just seemed to be there to give Batman enough time to regain his strength, escape and save the day.
If there is one thing i can't overlook in a film, it is entirely moronic bad guys.
The Dark Knight's story and also the Joker's plot was vastly better.
If you actually sit down and think about the TDKR plot, or at least the bad guys plot, it is entirely stupid.
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Odd people saying they could not understand bane,, my other half said the same.. To me his voice was very odd.. Way too clear like it was added afterwards (which I assume it was). To me his voice sounded so clear and out of place it detracted from the film...
Also, the fight scenes werent very imaginitive. Not one thing Batman did made me think "oh that was a good move" or "clever". It was all just brawling/fisticuffs.
The more i think about it, the more i think it wasnt really that great.
The more i think about it, the more i think it wasnt really that great.
Associate
Saw this last night. Was a bit put off by the change to Bane's voice from before, but at least he was audible. The film felt rushed, bruce's recovery was far too quick and he was far too strong for someone who'd been in a hellhole for 3 months. I don't think the pit was bad enough either.We only saw a small bit of it, and not enough suffering in it, or struggle for survival. And Bane flew Bruce all the way to Morrocco or whatever then he went all the way back to Gotham? Silly.
Bane's origin was badly handled, I thought. Alfred said he was fighting in the pit or something, and then emerged like a demon I thought, but then they just showed him chilling looking after the girl and after that just sitting moping. Bruce's cellmate or maybe Talia said Bane got his mask in the prison from the doctor, but we aren't shown that, he just has a towel on his face. It felt like that whole place had scenes missing. It was also confusing how we were being told the kid was Bane, but then they were saying he escaped as a child and is shown with no mask when escaping. Obviously later we find out it's Talia, but before that the story just makes no sense. Bane also says he was born and molded in darkness, and he only saw light as a man, but he wasn't the one born in the prison, and they can all see the light in the prison, unless he was in some other part for a while, but he wasn't born there.
My suspicions were confirmed when I read on IGN that they cut a Bane origin scene where you see him wearing a primitive version of the mask and other prisoners are holding him in chains and he is fighting in the pit. Maybe it will be on the DVD.
The stuff in Gotham was bad too, the plan was just ridiculous and only there to give Bruce time to escape. We did't see the suffering of the people either. It made no sense that Bane and Talia would nuke themselves, since they were the brains, they would have sent henchmen to blow the place up so they could enjoy their victory.
And what plane were the techies inspecting at the end? The plane got nuked and they didn't show spare planes.
I didn't like the kill scene where Bane did something to the lead bad guy and we hear him scream, it reminded me of the Joker cutting the dude in TDK and somehow the guy dies but we don't know why. And when it showed the police chief guy at the end lying dead on the ground there was no blood or bullet wounds just like the bank manager at the start of TDK.
And how the hell did Bruce climb out of the pit when his knees were ruined and he needed a walking stick?
Bane's origin was badly handled, I thought. Alfred said he was fighting in the pit or something, and then emerged like a demon I thought, but then they just showed him chilling looking after the girl and after that just sitting moping. Bruce's cellmate or maybe Talia said Bane got his mask in the prison from the doctor, but we aren't shown that, he just has a towel on his face. It felt like that whole place had scenes missing. It was also confusing how we were being told the kid was Bane, but then they were saying he escaped as a child and is shown with no mask when escaping. Obviously later we find out it's Talia, but before that the story just makes no sense. Bane also says he was born and molded in darkness, and he only saw light as a man, but he wasn't the one born in the prison, and they can all see the light in the prison, unless he was in some other part for a while, but he wasn't born there.
My suspicions were confirmed when I read on IGN that they cut a Bane origin scene where you see him wearing a primitive version of the mask and other prisoners are holding him in chains and he is fighting in the pit. Maybe it will be on the DVD.
The stuff in Gotham was bad too, the plan was just ridiculous and only there to give Bruce time to escape. We did't see the suffering of the people either. It made no sense that Bane and Talia would nuke themselves, since they were the brains, they would have sent henchmen to blow the place up so they could enjoy their victory.
And what plane were the techies inspecting at the end? The plane got nuked and they didn't show spare planes.
I didn't like the kill scene where Bane did something to the lead bad guy and we hear him scream, it reminded me of the Joker cutting the dude in TDK and somehow the guy dies but we don't know why. And when it showed the police chief guy at the end lying dead on the ground there was no blood or bullet wounds just like the bank manager at the start of TDK.
And how the hell did Bruce climb out of the pit when his knees were ruined and he needed a walking stick?
In OCUK, movie-goers are not allowed the willing suspension of disbelief. Really, do the people here go into movies looking for things that would be implausible in real life?
It's a movie... some corners are cut, some things are just there for cinematic effect. Some characters are meant to take the spotlight while others are just meant to be menacing, but not take centre stage. Or the film should be called Batman: Bane Rising, and miss the point of the film.
I think Harry Knowles at AICN complained about the fact that the streets of Gotham were completely clear of rubbish, yet there were no garbage collectors seen on camera. I mean, really? Complaining for the sake of complaining.
It's a movie... some corners are cut, some things are just there for cinematic effect. Some characters are meant to take the spotlight while others are just meant to be menacing, but not take centre stage. Or the film should be called Batman: Bane Rising, and miss the point of the film.
I think Harry Knowles at AICN complained about the fact that the streets of Gotham were completely clear of rubbish, yet there were no garbage collectors seen on camera. I mean, really? Complaining for the sake of complaining.
Caporegime
"Suspended disbelief" is ignoring that Superman is an extra terrestrial being and can break the rules of physics and fly. It is not "suspended disbelief" to ignore poorly made parts of a film. It's just the same as crappy acting. The part is fantastic, the actor rubbish at it - so people complain about the acting, not the story.
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Caporegime
He has a point, a lot of people on here get really stupid about the things they complain about.
Like some guy was complaining that we were never told exactly what Bane's mask did, why do we have to have these things spelt out for us?
Like some guy was complaining that we were never told exactly what Bane's mask did, why do we have to have these things spelt out for us?
His mask is very important in the comic version of the character and it's effects could have made for much more interesting plot devices.
Have to agree with nearly all the complaints on here, the storry was muddled and it felt like they were going in one direction and then changed their mind. I think the truth of what happened in the production will be revelaed one day.
I had non of these complaints about the DK
Caporegime
I agree that leaving out the smallest of details is fine. Also leaving some stuff to the imagination of the audience is good. I am complaining about the fundamental errors of film making, not so much about poetic license etc.
Soldato
The bit they cut was Bane training under LoS with a primitive version of his mask. He never got the mask in prison.
The never refer to the child as anything but 'the child', I think the characters even say stuff that suggests it wasn't Bane throughout, it's just confirmed with the reveal near the end.
Fox shows him that same Bat the technies are inspecting - hence the 'yes it comes in black' comment - they did a black one for Wayne.
Foley got run over by Tumbler (there's on-set pics of it) but they cut it out, probably to preservet the rating.
There's some suggestion Bruce's hobbling is psychosomatic,and being a bum for years obviously left him weak.
Caporegime
There's no way it's psychosomatic. The Doctor even tells Bruce he has no cartilage left in his knee(s).
Associate
I see, cheers for the additional info. Regarding Foley, Talia specifically says "Shoot them. Shoot all of them.", something like that, then you hear the gun fire and they drive off and he's lying there dead. Or maybe I misheard and she said "Drive through them."?
I know they don't refer to the child as Bane, since obviously the whole thing was set up for the twist, but Bruce believes it was Bane, and it was just odd them showing the kid completely fine but us having the impression it was supposed to be Bane. I would have preferred if they didn't show the kid's face at all, or if we saw it as Bruce imagined, with the kid wearing a mask, then at the end having no mask.
I actually was hoping the whole limping Bruce thing was an act to excuse his sudden withdrawal from society. I thought it would show him chuck the cane when he was alone and start working out, like the whole time he was just keeping in training until Gotham needed Batman again. Unfortunately they specifically showed him at the doctor being told his joints were ruined, so it couldn't be an act or in his head
. That made me wonder how his joints got destroyed. Between the first and 2nd films can't have been that long, since he gets the Joker's card at the end of BB and says he will look in to it, and then he quits being Batman after Dent dies right? So he wasn't actually Batman for a long time. I read something like he actually continued being Batman for a few years after Dent died, but I don't know how that could be possible with all the cops after him.
Edit: To clarify regarding the mask, I am sure Talia says the doctor in the prison gave Bane the mask to cope with the pain? And she should have rescued him since he saved Bane's life.
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anyone?
Associate
I thought you were trolling...someone injecting themselves and getting 10x bigger would not fit in Nolan's Batman universe. It's supposed to be semi-realistic, not comic book.
Read on IGN about one of the costume designers saying about the origin of Bane in the film and hoping it wasn't cut (why she hadn't seen the film was odd), but she went into some detail saying what was shot and it sound slike it would have made a few people a bit happier about Bane.