The Official 'The Dark Knight Rises' Spoiler Discussion Thread...

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Batman wasn't in shape before he fought Bane, yet he is shown just MOMENTS before the fight doing all kinds of acrobatic and beyond-normal-person's feats of strength and agility. Then he goes into prison, hangs from a rope to fix his back (ha, right), does a few rounds of situps and pushups and magically whoops Bane? Sorry, no amount of suspended disbelief is going to make that pass. The film needed to convey this better. THAT is the complaint.

He's not in shape but the bat suit etc.. allow him to perform acrobatic and beyond normal feats. Compared to a normal man he wasn't that unfit but against Bane he comes off as completely unfit.

Also he's in prison for just short of 5 months, it's far from a few rounds of situps and pushups. Also, in the second fight with Bane he knocks off part of Banes mask which helps make it a more even match up.

Not that I don't agree with some of your points to an extent but you seem to either have missed a couple of key details or be ignoring them.
 
Caporegime
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Watched it last night and I thought it was pretty awesome, better than the first two IMO although part of me wishes they hadn't shown Wayne as alive at the end... It was a little predictable throughout but then so are most films (the whole "twist" of the good guy/girl actually turning out as the baddy...) and the quality of it in general made that a minor issue.

There do seem to be a couple of major plot holes though (or just my misunderstanding of the science). Firstly the whole idea of a fusion bomb, specifically a bomb made from a nuclear fusion reactor, which AFAIK needs power into it just to make it work, it's power running down is just going to make it not work, not less stable...? Then there is Wayne being made bankrupt. Even in a communists pure fantasy world a bunch of bets made on the stock exchange as it was in the control of a group of hostage takers would be instantly void...

Other than the two main points being void IMO it was a really good film!

Found the bit with the cop brawl a little cheesy, 3 tumblers pull up, 1 deploys its turret and the other 2 just sit there as 1 gets taken out by the "bat" and the others don't do anything. They obviously all have these turrets as you see another one deploying its gun later on, sooo wtf :confused:

Banes death really came out of nowhere though, was expecting something a little more dramatic than the eyecandy of the movie taking out the hardnut with a cannon.

I agree, add to the fact that the police run directly at the villains (with their massive firepower) and three tumble over 100 yards!? Good job Bain equipped almost all of them with blanks!:confused:

I thought much the same, but I heard Christian Bale explain it in an interview, he was outstanding. The idea was that the reason Batman got so badly beaten by Bane, and that Batman's attack didn't have any effect on him was because of Bruce's being out of shape more than anything. A point emphasised when Bane says, 'Victory has defeated you.' The whole press ups and pull ups business in the prison was supposed to be Bruce getting back into shape for the final fight. Christian said, when talking about his character, that there was a Bruce who was physically out of shape that he had to play, but also him being back in shape and on form for the final showdown. Though, you don't have to tell me how ridiculous that is, we didn't even get a Rocky-style montage... How a month or two of press ups gets you ready to fight Bane, I don't know.

Wasn't that fairly obvious in the film?:eek: As you rightly point out, Bain said as much (and it was indicated throughout the dialogue with Alfred and the medical scene and the bit where he's walking around with a cane...) then it was drummed home with the dialogue in the three months he was in the Prison and the fact he was seen training and getting back to fitness. He was out of shape and needed practice, he wasn't learning everything from scratch (although from the look of him in the first few scenes (not films...:rolleyes:) his idea of out of shape is certainly not most!):p
 
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Caporegime
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If I remember correctly it is even stated in the film that the prison belongs to the person who escaped now.

And that the medic and other guy were there/paid to keep him alive.

What also got me was that it took him two attempt and a talking to before he realised it was the rope causing the issue (although it may just have been the shots that made it look like the rope was too short for those that jumped...
 
Soldato
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Wasn't that fairly obvious in the film?:eek:
You would have thought so... :p

As you rightly point out, Bain said as much (and it was indicated throughout the dialogue with Alfred and the medical scene and the bit where he's walking around with a cane...) then it was drummed home with the dialogue in the three months he was in the Prison and the fact he was seen training and getting back to fitness. He was out of shape and needed practice, he wasn't learning everything from scratch (although from the look of him in the first few films his idea of out of shape is certainly not most!):p
What about how Bruce looked after he had slept with Miranda? As he was lying down, you saw his epic arms, and as he got up to walk down to the Batcave, you saw his shredded abs. Not bad for a guy that had been a recluse for five years (not eight). ;)
 
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Saw this last night at the BFI IMAX and loved it - HOWEVER:

http://www.comicbookmovie.com/news/?a=64971

I agree with just about every point made on that list. Not with as much venom as the author, though.

Really? I have got to 25 on that list and am starting to wonder if we even watch ed the same film, in fact whether the author even watched a film at all rather than just made it up from a brief synopsis given to him by someone else... Otherwise I feel sorry for him as he needs things spelt out more (odd considering he states there was too much of that...). Or finally, he wants to draw people to his site by posting drivel...:(

For example...

7. The count-down for the bomb was 5 months. The exact time Batman needed to recover and get back to Gotham. This plot is from a "visionary" director.

Odd really, considering Wayne helped build the damn thing... He may know how long the backup lasted... Oh, the author did miss the big issue with all that however, the fact they could count down to the minute how much battery life there was...!

14. The change in shooting location from Chicago to Pittsburgh/New York made a very large difference in the feel of Gotham. In Batman Begins and TDK Gotham felt very dark and crime ridden as well as smaller. The scene change to New York/Pitt made it almost seem that Gotham was an entirely different city from the previous two films.

Perhaps the director wanted to say something with this pick*, that Gotham was a much nicer, brighter, less crime ridden city eight years later. Actually, wasn't that the main theme of the film for the first half an hour or so...?

*(although it could be an arbitrary decision based on filming licences, although the fact Gotham was an island in the other films meant it was always assumed by me to be based on New York anyway)

16. Despite the prison being constantly told how much of a hell hole it was when Batman was trapped in it the prison seemed fairly relaxed. You didn't see anyone trying to make a crippled Bruce Wayne their bitch, they had a prisoner with some medical training helping to take care of Bruce, they even had TV in the prison. Christopher Nolan should have consulted with the makers of Prison Break if he wanted to make a prison a hell hole because they did a better job of that in the season 3 Panama Prison.

Missed the plot entirely...?

19. Without doing any hard math on it. There is no way that the plane hijacking in the beginning was even remotely possible/believable. Everything from the plane that continues to fly needed some tremendous power/stability to stay in the air despite pulling another plane to the strength of the cables and joints holding the cables in being strong enough to the way the plane drags through the air (perpendicular to the ground) all defied logic and physics.

I assume the purposely picked a readily available military cargo plane like that because it was capable of lifting a heavy weight... Although I don't know the full physics involved and would have suggested a Galaxy instead (but then you have the issue of where they got it from)... It's not that far fetched however, the other plane was rather small (quite possibly below the safe cargo weight of the C130, with the C130 having dedicated load points to attach the cables to)!

20. Bane seems to have A LOT of suicidal followers throughout the film. It can be explained away as them being League of Shadows members. The only problem with this is The League of Shadows took a huge hit to their ranks in the first film. Even assuming that after Raz's death Talia took over and rebuilt their army was far too large and filled with far too many suicidal members.

At LEAST eight years, easily more, and add to that the the LoS's drug knowledge...

22. Gordon gets captured and taken to Bane and he escaped by jumping into flowing water in the sewer. The prisoner exclaims there is no way to know which water way he will wash up through and end up at. However, Officer Blake who has no idea he even jumped into the water seemingly acts on a hunch and knows exactly where to find Gordon.

Or, you know, he's sensible and goes to a place that had someone washed out, good starting point for searching the sewers?

24. Also, how does someone like Commissioner Gordon even know who Bane is? He seems as he is portrayed as a terrorist probably in the Africa/Asia/Middle East areas. Not someone who a half-unconscious police commissioner would know.

Did Gordon ever say anything about Bain personally after the Sewers? I don't remember that!

30. Speaking of the Stock Exchange scene. The stock exchange closes at what, 4pm, 5pm? They apparently need only a few minutes to hack into the stock exchange. When they enter it is day time and a lot of trading is going on. When they decide they need to get out of there because the fiber and satellite is being cut (still day time as the officer is giving the order) they get on their magical dirt bikes it is suddenly pitch black way past sundown at night, perfect for Batman to navigate all the shadows and hide the bat plane in the alley! Keep in mind, this is supposed to be a summer/early fall scene. The sun wouldn't set until eight o'clock at least.

Agree with that, but then that's fairly standard in most films... Night always comes early!

Just a few of the more obvious answers...
 
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What about how Bruce looked after he had slept with Miranda? As he was lying down, you saw his epic arms, and as he got up to walk down to the Batcave, you saw his shredded abs. Not bad for a guy that had been a recluse for five years (not eight). ;)

Exactly (just changed my post, not sure how films got in there, should have been scenes), those were the two scenes I was thinking of too.

You sure about 5 years, I'm pretty sure it was mentioned eight at least once. (Is there a comic strip of TDKR BTW? - Interested to know if it was copied from that)

EDIT: Nope... Definitely EIGHT years http://www.cinemablend.com/new/Nolan-Explains-Dark-Knight-Rises-8-Year-Time-Jump-28357.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dark_Knight_Rises

Eight years after the events of The Dark Knight, Gotham City is in a state of peace.
 
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Caporegime
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The film said 8 years. Which had me puzzled, because it has been only 4 since TDK.

Amp34/jackthezipper - Bruce had a broken back. 5 months and a piece of rope is not long enough for anyone, save Wolverine, to recover from it, never mind recover and get strong enough to beat Bane. :)

And yes.. it was five months, so why was it such a short scene? Even the devastation in Gotham could have been used to fill that time.
 
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Caporegime
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What about how Bruce looked after he had slept with Miranda? As he was lying down, you saw his epic arms, and as he got up to walk down to the Batcave, you saw his shredded abs. Not bad for a guy that had been a recluse for five years (not eight). ;)

Because you need to do your exercise in public?
 
Caporegime
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The film said 8 years. Which had me puzzled, because it has been only 4 since TDK.

Amp34/jackthezipper - Bruce had a broken back. 5 months and a piece of rope is not long enough for anyone, save Wolverine, to recover from it, never mind recover and get strong enough to beat Bane. :)

And yes.. it was five months, so why was it such a short scene? Even the devastation in Gotham could have been used to fill that time.

And since when did the timeline in a film have to match the timeline in real life? Even 24 didn't do that (in the UK and on DVD anyway). It's eight years, it's in the film. It gives another four years to clean up the city and stop the "how did they clean up the city in 4 years!?" brigade... Damned if you do an damned if you don't!

Did he have a broken back? The guy said a vertebrae was sticking out of his back, sounds more like a dislocation to me (although rather dangerous putting it back in like that). The rope could have been used to help him stand up and use his back without putting too much pressure on it, bit like those learning to walk again use two rails to hold themselves up.

The overall "scene" (him being dumped in the prison, the judging, the freeing of prisoners, Robin wondering around in secret, Wayne doing multiple scenes of exercise, watching several TV accounts (with the TV clearly showing a counter for days passed), more squirrelling around in the city, more sentencing, Special forces getting involved...) was around half an hour or so IIRC, how much longer did you want?!

Oh and reading more of that link...

43. Bane suddenly gets a hold of the letter regarding Dent that Gordon had been holding onto to reveal the truth about what happened the last night before Batman disappeared. This wasn't something that was handed to Bane when Gordon's pockets were being searched and up to this point that had been the only time Bane and Gordon actually met. How did Bane get this letter?

He CAN'T have seen the film?:confused::eek: It clearly showed Bain saying "search him", the guy "searching" him, picking out the papers in his pocket (in fact the only thing shown being removed) and Bain being given them...:confused:

EDIT: And more...

53. All bridges except one into the city were destroyed and it is the middle of winter yet somehow Bruce Wayne is able to slip back into Gotham seemingly undetected.

He's supposed to be Batman... Stealth is kinda what he is good at... What surprises me more is that special forces had to sneak in with a food truck... They could have stolen onto the island in multiple ways, you know, special forces sneaking into enemy territory and camping just outside the bases...

54. As seen earlier in the film, gas is scarce and some of it is siphoned by Blake for a bus in case they need to escape the city. Despite this, three trucks have been driving around the city for months, one of which carrying the bomb, and they don't need to worry about the supply of gas to a city that has had every entrance cut off except one.

It's amazing what guns and men can do. Maybe that is why there is a shortage of fuel...? A large amount of it (and there would be significant reserves considering there are probably a large number of petrol stations) would be under the control of the guys with guns...Bain...

55. Shortly after slipping back into the city Bruce knows exactly where to find Selina Kyle and is waiting for her on the street.

Ask someone?
 
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Caporegime
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Sorry, are you agreeing with me or agreeing with the person I quoted?

I used Bain because someone else in this thread did. :p I come to this from the film side of things, never been into comics which is probably why I don't have the dislike of the film that some people seem to!
 
Soldato
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Exactly (just changed my post, not sure how films got in there, should have been scenes), those were the two scenes I was thinking of too.

You sure about 5 years, I'm pretty sure it was mentioned eight at least once. (Is there a comic strip of TDKR BTW? - Interested to know if it was copied from that)

EDIT: Nope... Definitely EIGHT years http://www.cinemablend.com/new/Nolan-Explains-Dark-Knight-Rises-8-Year-Time-Jump-28357.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dark_Knight_Rises
That's how long it was since the end of the Dark Knight, yes. But Bruce only became a recluse after his fusion reactor project 'failed', as far as I can remember.

Because you need to do your exercise in public?
Lol, it was more the fact he could barely walk than the fact he was a recluse...
 
Soldato
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He got the prototype leg brace to help that.
I know, but he was completely shredded days after putting the knee brace on... I don't really care that much, tbh. :p

There's a cool video here, comparing Bane's voice in the original prologue that went out before Mission Impossible 4:

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xs...arison-imax-prologue-vs-final-film_shortfilms

It's kind of annoying, because I prefer the original voice, much scarier and more sinister. But there's no doubt that most all of Bane's dialogue would have been impossible to understand, had he spoken like that throughout the whole movie.
 
Caporegime
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Just as well they changed it as the bulk of his original audio was virtually gibberish that badly needed subtitles. Thers a couple of areas in the movie some of his words almost sound like they have a Jamaican twang to them, in their first fight when the lights go out he says something along the line of "you merely adopted de dark, aah was born in it, moulded by it, i didn't see de liight untill i was already a man", that whole sentence has a Jamaican twang to it, but most of his words don't have that twang to them.

Think i read somewhere the character in the comics was meant to be from the Caribbean area?

Theres one bit of his speech i can't make out at all in the first fight, something like "gibber has cost you your strength, victory has defeated you". :confused:
 
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