The Official 'The Dark Knight Rises' Spoiler Discussion Thread...

[Dj_Jestar]

Ignoring the pettyness in the author's articulacy and choice of expressions - it's comicbookmovie.com.. comic nerds alert - he has a damn good underlying point.

The first two films were epic (more so the second). Epic stories, epic works of cinematic greatness, highly polished and no gaps in the plot. TDKR had (cinematic) technical and story line flaws. The first two didn't, so why does the third suffer?

There were questionable moments of "Er, what?" in the plot. I even said, out loud, "what?!" several times throughout the film - when the "Prison" was just a hole in the ground. When it turns out that the prison has a "medic" inmate. When it turns out that the only person to ever escape was a pre-teen child, and so on. When Talia stabbed batman - not because I was "surprised by the twist" - but because it just didn't make any sense. I was also very let down by the second fight with Bane being such a contrast to the first fight.. bane is supposed to be the stronger, by far. In the first fight, Batman's attacks are futile.. why does Bane suddenly get knocked back by his punches in the second?

In fact all of the prison scenes are utterly crap. All of them. "It is your soul that is holding you back" ... just ... what?!

Tom Hardy was ace as Bane. I can't think of any actors that could play him better, or even at all, Live or Dead. Anne Hathaway was good as Catwoman. And she's an actress I generally don't like. Michael Caine is *SUPERB* as Alfred, as is Gary Oldman as Gordon (though he was severely underused in this one, imo). Morgan Freeman is good as Fox. Whoever it was that played Miranda/Talia is very easily forgotten.

I'm unhappy with TDKR, not because it is a bad film, but because it's not an epic film (like TDK is) when it so easily could have been. Clearly the producers/investors got impatient, and possibly even had more input into the story than they should have. The complaints I and that site make are because it appears the film and story were changed at the last minute, or worse, the film editing was sabotaged.

It's like Ferrari have released a new super car and every chance they got they told us it's great, it's better made than their last car, which was a damn fine bit of automotive creativity and engineering. But it's not really that super. It's a Ferrari no less - but it's limited to 100mph ... and can only turn left.

Like many, I await the Director's cut to see if Nolan had other plans for what turned out to be a closer-to-mediocre-than-epic film that was destined to be epic.

 

[Gerard]

Found the bit with the cop brawl a little cheesy, 3 tumblers pull up, 1 deploys its turret and the other 2 just sit there as 1 gets taken out by the "bat" and the others don't do anything. They obviously all have these turrets as you see another one deploying its gun later on, sooo wtf

Banes death really came out of nowhere though, was expecting something a little more dramatic than the eyecandy of the movie taking out the hardnut with a cannon.

 

[Naffa]

Ignoring the pettyness in the author's articulacy and choice of expressions - it's comicbookmovie.com.. comic nerds alert - he has a damn good underlying point.

The first two films were epic (more so the second). Epic stories, epic works of cinematic greatness, highly polished and no gaps in the plot. TDKR had (cinematic) technical and story line flaws. The first two didn't, so why does the third suffer?

There were questionable moments of "Er, what?" in the plot. I even said, out loud, "what?!" several times throughout the film - when the "Prison" was just a hole in the ground. When it turns out that the prison has a "medic" inmate. When it turns out that the only person to ever escape was a pre-teen child, and so on. When Talia stabbed batman - not because I was "surprised by the twist" - but because it just didn't make any sense. I was also very let down by the second fight with Bane being such a contrast to the first fight.. bane is supposed to be the stronger, by far. In the first fight, Batman's attacks are futile.. why does Bane suddenly get knocked back by his punches in the second?

I thought much the same, but I heard Christian Bale explain it in an interview, he was outstanding. The idea was that the reason Batman got so badly beaten by Bane, and that Batman's attack didn't have any effect on him was because of Bruce's being out of shape more than anything. A point emphasised when Bane says, 'Victory has defeated you.' The whole press ups and pull ups business in the prison was supposed to be Bruce getting back into shape for the final fight. Christian said, when talking about his character, that there was a Bruce who was physically out of shape that he had to play, but also him being back in shape and on form for the final showdown. Though, you don't have to tell me how ridiculous that is, we didn't even get a Rocky-style montage... How a month or two of press ups gets you ready to fight Bane, I don't know.

Tom Hardy was ace as Bane. I can't think of any actors that could play him better, or even at all, Live or Dead. Anne Hathaway was good as Catwoman. And she's an actress I generally don't like. Michael Caine is *SUPERB* as Alfred, as is Gary Oldman as Gordon (though he was severely underused in this one, imo). Morgan Freeman is good as Fox. Whoever it was that played Miranda/Talia is very easily forgotten.

Add Christian as the two Bruces and Batman. I thought that Marion Cotillard was a perfect casting for Talia, it's just a shame that a completely redundant character was written, simply to facilitate the twist.

Found the bit with the cop brawl a little cheesy, 3 tumblers pull up, 1 deploys its turret and the other 2 just sit there as it gets taken out by the "bat" and don't do anything. They obviously all have these turrets as you see another one deploying its gun later on, sooo wtf

No, they don't all have turrets. The only ones with turrets are the ones with square windscreens on the passenger side.

 

[cu3ed]

Reboot it for a different direction is better than messing up a good trilogy that was made as a trilogy right from the word go. If they market it as not from the beginning, starting from a point can always work too without too big of a reboot.

I was pretty sure the plan for the studio was to reboot Batman ( Planned before TDKR), and eventually do a Justice League film/ story mode.

 

[Gerard]

No, they don't all have turrets. The only ones with turrets are the ones with square windscreens on the passenger side.

At the very least theyre all armed with some form of weaponry as shown with one launching rockets, but they just sat there.

 

[Naffa]

At the very least theyre all armed with some form of weaponry as shown with one launching rockets, but they just sat there.

Yep, fair point. They could have at least launched a few rockets at the Bat.

 

[cu3ed]

Want the point that the Bat Wing came down and neutralise them, you seen it swoop down, not shoot at the time, but clearly seen a few sparks/ bolts over the Tanks, thinking it was the same kinda thing he used on all the photographers, like a low yield EMC or sommin?

 

[Gerard]

Want the point that the Bat Wing came down and neutralise them, you seen it swoop down, not shoot at the time, but clearly seen a few sparks/ bolts over the Tanks, thinking it was the same kinda thing he used on all the photographers, like a low yield EMC or sommin?

Looked more like it was just firing heavy machinegun rounds at them, at that point the ecm doohicky had been taken out of it, or something was at least. If it still had it installed it would have made it far easier to stop the bomb truck. Hard to say really after seeing it just once.

 

[antijoke]

Along with the already mentioned above, number 16 - Bearing in mind Bane's plan for Batman (to watch as he tortures Gotham, and then he can die) it's 100% logical that he would give specific orders that he is not to be harmed in any way while he is there. It's also logical to assume he has the influence over the prison to be able to give these orders, otherwise he wouldn't send him there in the first place.

If I remember correctly it is even stated in the film that the prison belongs to the person who escaped now.

 

[PoD]

The Gotham city prisoners were supposed to be hardened villains and at least the front row were armed with assault rifles and the police were all carrying weapons in the sewers. There is no way the police or the villains would just charge head on in for a royal rumble and there is ZERO chance that either side wouldn't be primarily targeting Bane or Batman.

When the tumblers roll out where Talia is saying kill them etc the police are all standing is some stupid line pointing small arms at them. It looked silly.


Now dont get me wrong I loved the film, but the prison seen was pretty lame and the big rumble at the end was terrible.

Also I hated the fact that Cat Women stops to kiss Batman at the end when they have a NUCLEAR BOMB about to go off....

 

[anything I don't mind]

I thought the movie was not very good. The production was amazing and you can see they spent a lot of money on it but that was about all it has going for it.

I did not realy enjoy the last batman so not surprised in not realy enjoying this one that much. The villian was a bit crap in this one and came across as a bit lame. When he had to climb up the rope, i thought that was stupid. The cops trying to catch batman all the time and catwoman character also pretty dumb.

I guess i am just not a fan of batman.

 

[Shamikebab]

I thought the movie was not very good. The production was amazing and you can see they spent a lot of money on it but that was about all it has going for it.

I did not realy enjoy the last batman so not surprised in not realy enjoying this one that much. The villian was a bit crap in this one and came across as a bit lame. When he had to climb up the rope, i thought that was stupid. The cops trying to catch batman all the time and catwoman character also pretty dumb.

I guess i am just not a fan of batman.

What on earth made you go and see it if you didn't like TDK

 

[anything I don't mind]

I watch most movies. The production value alone is worth watching the movie.I liked the first batman of this series. But I think the batman story itself is wearing thin, which is why i just don't enjoy it as much as other people. But I do like the car chases and action scenes.

 

[McBain]

Watched it last night, thought it was a solid movie and a good conclusion to the trilogy. Wouldn't go overboard and say it's one of the best movies i've ever seen however.

 

[Gerard]

Ok so has anyone seen THAT video on youtube? Its made to look like its someone recording off a screen in a cinema, in it bane breaks batmans back, teabags him (literally) takes a slash on him, decapitates him and uhhhhh...molests the head to put it mildly. Its called "Dark Knight Rises Fight Scene".

 

[Dj_Jestar]

hahahahaha, just.. lol

 

[Naffa]

How did Bane eat? Also, how did he get his protein shake down after a workout? The mask would make it difficult.

 

[bignev72]

Ignoring the pettyness in the author's articulacy and choice of expressions - it's comicbookmovie.com.. comic nerds alert - he has a damn good underlying point.

The first two films were epic (more so the second). Epic stories, epic works of cinematic greatness, highly polished and no gaps in the plot. TDKR had (cinematic) technical and story line flaws. The first two didn't, so why does the third suffer?

There were questionable moments of "Er, what?" in the plot. I even said, out loud, "what?!" several times throughout the film - when the "Prison" was just a hole in the ground. When it turns out that the prison has a "medic" inmate. When it turns out that the only person to ever escape was a pre-teen child, and so on. When Talia stabbed batman - not because I was "surprised by the twist" - but because it just didn't make any sense. I was also very let down by the second fight with Bane being such a contrast to the first fight.. bane is supposed to be the stronger, by far. In the first fight, Batman's attacks are futile.. why does Bane suddenly get knocked back by his punches in the second?

In fact all of the prison scenes are utterly crap. All of them. "It is your soul that is holding you back" ... just ... what?!

Tom Hardy was ace as Bane. I can't think of any actors that could play him better, or even at all, Live or Dead. Anne Hathaway was good as Catwoman. And she's an actress I generally don't like. Michael Caine is *SUPERB* as Alfred, as is Gary Oldman as Gordon (though he was severely underused in this one, imo). Morgan Freeman is good as Fox. Whoever it was that played Miranda/Talia is very easily forgotten.

I'm unhappy with TDKR, not because it is a bad film, but because it's not an epic film (like TDK is) when it so easily could have been. Clearly the producers/investors got impatient, and possibly even had more input into the story than they should have. The complaints I and that site make are because it appears the film and story were changed at the last minute, or worse, the film editing was sabotaged.

It's like Ferrari have released a new super car and every chance they got they told us it's great, it's better made than their last car, which was a damn fine bit of automotive creativity and engineering. But it's not really that super. It's a Ferrari no less - but it's limited to 100mph ... and can only turn left.

Like many, I await the Director's cut to see if Nolan had other plans for what turned out to be a closer-to-mediocre-than-epic film that was destined to be epic.

There was a MASSIVE plot problem with Dark Knight - Batman didn't need to take the blame for Harvey Dent's death. He could easily have said it was the joker. Although they then try and explain this in TDKR as it keeping everyone vigilant as Batman is still out there and could return at any point. Again it doesn't work because;

1) They're not vigilant, they still become complacent
and
2) There is no way they would know that with the Joker gone crime would be dramatically reduced and thus they need a reason to stay vigilant anyway. You can't know that.

The Bane fight scenes have been explained by posters several times throughout this thread. Batman is not in shape when they first fight, he gets in shape whilst in prison AND knows Bane's weakness is his mask when they fight the second time.

Essentially you can pick holes in any film if you look hard enough. You have to "suspend your disbelief" and let these small things go.

 

[Dj_Jestar]

Everyone knew the Joker wasn't involved in Dent's death, that was why Batman took the blame, to deflect it from Dent to prevent the idol he had become from being tarnished. He (Joker) was the other side of the city.

They are not "small things" that I and others are complaining about. It's futile trying to explain it to you, because you can't seem to get past the "OMG IT'S A BATMAN FILM IT MOST BE LOVED" but I'll spell it out again:

There are fundamental cinematic errors in the film, and clear evidence of last-minute script changing. Parts of the film ARE VERY POORLY MADE. Is that clear enough for you now?

Batman wasn't in shape before he fought Bane, yet he is shown just MOMENTS before the fight doing all kinds of acrobatic and beyond-normal-person's feats of strength and agility. Then he goes into prison, hangs from a rope to fix his back (ha, right), does a few rounds of situps and pushups and magically whoops Bane? Sorry, no amount of suspended disbelief is going to make that pass. The film needed to convey this better. THAT is the complaint.

 

[SFFNoob]

I'll head back out, will see it before coming in here again, see the debates on!