The Rangers Saga and Fallout Thread

Jokester · 13 May 2012 at 15:59

Indeed, first thing this morning it was, needs a CVA, now it's well if we don't get a CVA we form a newco.

I can just see this being dragged out to the point they slopey shoulder the blame onto the creditors for not accepting a CVA.

Kennysevenfold · 13 May 2012 at 17:00

Yeah, hope the CVA gets accepted, as Mr Green said in his interview/press conference, if HMRC and the other creditors are smart, they will accept a percentage of what they are owed with this CVA rather than nothing at all if it comes to liquidation.

Jokester · 13 May 2012 at 17:02

If it's liquidated HMRC etc will get a share of the sell off, so they won't get nothing, so it seems they're all ready setting them up to be the fall guys in it all.

afraser2k · 13 May 2012 at 18:22

Jokester said:
If it's liquidated HMRC etc will get a share of the sell off, so they won't get nothing, so it seems they're all ready setting them up to be the fall guys in it all.

The administrators have already said the newco the consortium is planning is similar to what Miller had so creditors won't get anything. It makes the SPL meeting more important now if the creditors decide to reject the CVA offer.

Anyway, Panorama to look forward to tomorrow night looking into Sir David Murray's running of the club. :eek:

Jokester · 13 May 2012 at 18:25

How can the creditors not get anything? Ibrox and so on have value, the administrators would be acting illegally if they were to sell them to the newco for less than market value.

afraser2k · 13 May 2012 at 18:40

Jokester said:
How can the creditors not get anything? Ibrox and so on have value, the administrators would be acting illegally if they were to sell them to the newco for less than market value.

Miller's newco would have transferred all the good assets to the club and left the debt with the old one. Once the oldco was liquidated or got rid of then the assets would've transferred back. It's perfectly legal and iirc was called a hive down liquidation.

Jokester · 13 May 2012 at 18:50

afraser2k said:
Miller's newco would have transferred all the good assets to the club and left the debt with the old one. Once the oldco was liquidated or got rid of then the assets would've transferred back. It's perfectly legal and iirc was called a hive down liquidation.

I don't think they can do that without getting a CVA, until then the adminstrators are the ones that would be selling assets.

afraser2k · 14 May 2012 at 10:14

Jokester said:
I don't think they can do that without getting a CVA, until then the adminstrators are the ones that would be selling assets.

They can, that's why other Scottish fans were in uproar that they could easily get away with the transfer as the newco is protected from the oldco debt (CVA included). That's why Miller wanted to go down that route and the new owners are doing it if the creditors reject the new offer. I could be wrong but this also includes the administrators fees?

At the end of the day it's looking likely that the 12-month transfer ban and 10 point deduction will be their only punishment with the SPL carrying on as normal.

pingwing · 14 May 2012 at 10:19

afraser2k said:
Miller's newco would have transferred all the good assets to the club and left the debt with the old one. Once the oldco was liquidated or got rid of then the assets would've transferred back. It's perfectly legal and iirc was called a hive down liquidation.

If thats what Rangers do, that cannot be legal for much longer as that is very clearly cheating...

jamesy505 · 14 May 2012 at 12:59

afraser2k said:
Early reports a bit confusing as to what was going on.

They can't back out of buying the club now so it looks like it's down to the creditors as to what form the club will take next season. With the way things are going it looks like the big tax case results will be announced next week if HMRC want to be part of the creditors meeting?

HMRC will be part of the creditors meeting anyway without the big tax case result, as they are due the money Whyte didnt pay since his takeover.

Also, there is the SPL investigation into the dual contracts still to be concluded, so the sactions from a guilty verdict on that will likely outweigh the SFA punishment.

I really dont see why the tax case result hasnt been determined, as the final court case was in January?

Does that £8.5 mil include payment to HMRC for the big tax case, as Rangers have already been hit with the bill, its the appeal that is being heard just now.

Kennysevenfold · 14 May 2012 at 16:19

Disgrace.

http://local.stv.tv/glasgow/99727-g...rs-stadium-as-object-thrown-at-rangers-staff/

pingwing · 14 May 2012 at 16:51

Kennysevenfold said:
Disgrace.

http://local.stv.tv/glasgow/99727-g...rs-stadium-as-object-thrown-at-rangers-staff/

As a news website it is, automatic adverts that make silly noise and a lack of news at all...

Plus iv witnessed many a person causing riots with Rangers shirts on (a general implication of fandom) so its rather like the pot calling the kettle black

afraser2k · 14 May 2012 at 17:56

jamesy505 said:
HMRC will be part of the creditors meeting anyway without the big tax case result, as they are due the money Whyte didnt pay since his takeover.

Also, there is the SPL investigation into the dual contracts still to be concluded, so the sactions from a guilty verdict on that will likely outweigh the SFA punishment.

I really dont see why the tax case result hasnt been determined, as the final court case was in January?

Does that £8.5 mil include payment to HMRC for the big tax case, as Rangers have already been hit with the bill, its the appeal that is being heard just now.

The big tax case appeal has still to be decided by judicial panel (as far as I know) so it'll be extra to the wee tax case that got them in the mess in the first place. Current rumours are it'll be around £13m. The £8.5m will be for all creditors so Ticketus now going after Whyte for their money back, I'm assuming the big tax case will be added once the result is known.

I'm assuming that any SFA/SPL punishment will still see a Rangers in some form play in the SPL due to the financial constraints at the clubs. Whether or not this will lead to boycotts from either set of fans remains to be seen.

spudbynight · 14 May 2012 at 18:20

I just cannot view any situation that sees Rangers playing in the SPL next season as appropriate.

jamesy505 · 15 May 2012 at 13:06

Hibs chairman Rod Petrie fires of this soundbite..

"Integrity is beyond purchase"

To me that sounds like Hibs would not vote a Newco Rangers into the SPL.

McMav · 15 May 2012 at 13:34

jamesy505 said:
Hibs chairman Rod Petrie fires of this soundbite..

"Integrity is beyond purchase"

To me that sounds like Hibs would not vote a Newco Rangers into the SPL.

Or he is making it sound like he will vote no to appease his fans so they renew season tickets then votes yes as the vote will be anonymous. Some are bound to vote no and he can say as all chairmen can "oh we voted no honest".

jamesy505 · 15 May 2012 at 16:49

McMav said:
Or he is making it sound like he will vote no to appease his fans so they renew season tickets then votes yes as the vote will be anonymous. Some are bound to vote no and he can say as all chairmen can "oh we voted no honest".

Is the vote anonymous? It shouldnt be. But either way, he has stuck his head out so even if Rangers Newco are voted into the SPL some Rangers fans will want to boycott Hibs because of his comments.

So at least he is not hiding like others pandering to the financial aspect.

Integrity beyond purchase...I like that quote

Jokester · 15 May 2012 at 17:13

It certainly sounded like season ticket sales are down at most clubs, it could be the reason why the decided to defer the decision till the end of the month to see if it was a definite slump in sales or just a temporary low before they make their decision on what to do.

McMav · 16 May 2012 at 09:46

jamesy505 said:
Is the vote anonymous? It shouldnt be. But either way, he has stuck his head out so even if Rangers Newco are voted into the SPL some Rangers fans will want to boycott Hibs because of his comments.

So at least he is not hiding like others pandering to the financial aspect.

Integrity beyond purchase...I like that quote

Yes Anonymous. Cowards! Rangers fans are planning on boycotting anyway so doesnt really make a difference.

Most season ticket sales are down too mainly due to price rises and recession. I read a celtic fan complaining his tickets was going up to over £600 and he said "and we might not have any rangers games on it." Says all that needs to be said really.

Swordfish · 16 May 2012 at 20:21

McMav said:
Yes Anonymous. Cowards! Rangers fans are planning on boycotting anyway so doesnt really make a difference.

Most season ticket sales are down too mainly due to price rises and recession. I read a celtic fan complaining his tickets was going up to over £600 and he said "and we might not have any rangers games on it." Says all that needs to be said really.

It was my understanding the Celtic season tickets don't include the Old Firm games anyway. Season ticket holders go into a ballot to see if they get a tciket and they sell the remaining tickets.