The Rangers Saga and Fallout Thread

[No1newts]

I have nothing against Rangers, similarly I have nothing against Portsmouth or any other club who suffers these problems but they need to have the **** smashed out of them because if I owed, you owed or any regular business owed the taxman £9mill they would be raped for it without any concern for anything else.

Simply because they are a football club is not reason enough to be able to do what they will and football clubs need to learn this, the hard way if required.

 

[mmj_uk]

If they are forced to start from the bottom of the Scottish Leagues, then starting from the bottom of the English leagues would potentially be more attractive in the long run (albeit maybe not feasible).

If Rangers had to start any sort of climb like AFC Wimbledon did they will be a mere shadow of the team they are now, they'd need a rich owner to splash the cash (ie. Crawley Town) or they'd probably end up stuck in the lower leagues.

 

[div0]

If Rangers had to start any sort of climb like AFC Wimbledon did they will be a mere shadow of the team they are now, they'd need a rich owner to splash the cash (ie. Crawley Town) or they'd probably end up stuck in the lower leagues.

Without a doubt they'd be the shadow of the team they are now. And any climb wouldn't be easy, although other teams have done it and returned to the upper leagues fairly quickly. But as you say it depends on having money to keep certain players, or to attract the quality that is of a standard above the norm for those leagues.

My only thought was more that if they are forced (by the SPL, or other SPL teams) into starting again from the bottom leagues in Scotland. Then would they instead prefer to do so in England (if they even could).

Anyway, as I've already said it's all total speculation just now and probably not even a possible option anyway.

 

[Derek W]

1. Manchester United £716m
2. Chelsea (Limited) £701m
3. Valencia C.F £501m
4. Liverpool £351m
5. Real Madrid £296m
6. FC Barcelona £273m
7. AS Roma £271m
8. Schalke 04 £234m
9. Arsenal £203m
10. Fulham £198m

http://soccerlens.com/the-football-debt-league-top-10-most-indebted-clubs/50035/

Ok its two years old but to be honest it makes rangers debt look like a drop in the ocean

 

[233]

craig whyte pocketed £24million from ticketus perhaps?


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-17067141


the administrators dont know where the money is and its unsecured against club assets

this gets dodgier and dodgier

 

[Jokester]

Does look increasingly like Whyte is nothing more than an asset stripper.

 

[vandiesel]

Sorry late to thread but I heard they owe £9m to HMRC, that will need paying off there is no way they will waiver it like other creditors.

Does not work like that, and according to HMRC, not only do they owe 9m paye, they owe "the big tax" £49m. HMRC is not a secured creditor, Whyte is, if HMRC do not agree to the CVA then a winding up order will more than likely be issued. With Whyte a preferential/secured creditor he will get his first, the tax man and others could end up with zilch.

This is "It is a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma" what Whytes plan was, one things for sure, which he should have known being a bear(allegedly), they will lynch him, I reckon he got the same feeling after his "rabbit caught in the headlights" statement at the steps of ibrox, current whereabouts........Monaco

 

[weescott]

I had a synical chuckle to myself when David Cameron was asked " Do you support HMRC's decision to force Rangers football club into administration?" Seems he had a little chuckle too

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-17052800

from 8:11

"No one wants to see....well I certainly don't want to see that club dissapear."

Care much?

 

[drunkenmaster]

1. Manchester United £716m
2. Chelsea (Limited) £701m
3. Valencia C.F £501m
4. Liverpool £351m
5. Real Madrid £296m
6. FC Barcelona £273m
7. AS Roma £271m
8. Schalke 04 £234m
9. Arsenal £203m
10. Fulham £198m

http://soccerlens.com/the-football-debt-league-top-10-most-indebted-clubs/50035/

Ok its two years old but to be honest it makes rangers debt look like a drop in the ocean

That isn't remotely a good measure, simply as you've got to compare debt to how much money they earn every year. Scottish football clubs have a tiny revenue in comparison. As someone said 2mil a year or so tv money for Rangers while the worst team in the EPL ends up with 30 odd mil at the moment.

30mil debt is effectively far bigger to a club that has a 60mil turnover than a club that has a 300mil turnover

Does look increasingly like Whyte is nothing more than an asset stripper.

It was my first thought but, meh, it actually makes sense in terms of Rangers long term interests to separate every single asset from Rangers possible...... go into administration, essentially go bankrupt but with FAR less to lose, then essentially start fresh.

If Rangers FC owned the stadium then if they owed 100mil the governement would simply take the stadium, and every other asset they could. if you insulate the stadium and everything possible. You go bust, whatever money can be extracted to pay off debt is, the rest is essentially written off(not sure on that exactly?) then either start with things like punishments and possible demotion, or drastic measures and start in a low low league and work their way back up. However, they'd still have a stadium, and training ground and anything else they essentially managed to separate from the bankrupt football club.

Realistically it could be either, he could be protecting Rangers, or screwing them royally, you wouldn't really know either way for a good while yet.

To be fair, I also don't know how far along the case was when he took over, did it look like a real possibility this tax case was going to go all the way when he took over, or did he essentially buy a club with not much debt, then learn over time that he's essentially going to be asked to pay tax on several years wages from years before, and he's been rather screwed as well?

 

[vandiesel]

To be fair, I also don't know how far along the case was when he took over, did it look like a real possibility this tax case was going to go all the way when he took over, or did he essentially buy a club with not much debt, then learn over time that he's essentially going to be asked to pay tax on several years wages from years before, and he's been rather screwed as well?

no, he bought the club for a token £1, along with the tax liability, and 18m owed to Lloyds

 

[jmc777]

 

[Jokester]

It was my first thought but, meh, it actually makes sense in terms of Rangers long term interests to separate every single asset from Rangers possible...... go into administration, essentially go bankrupt but with FAR less to lose, then essentially start fresh.

If Rangers FC owned the stadium then if they owed 100mil the governement would simply take the stadium, and every other asset they could. if you insulate the stadium and everything possible. You go bust, whatever money can be extracted to pay off debt is, the rest is essentially written off(not sure on that exactly?) then either start with things like punishments and possible demotion, or drastic measures and start in a low low league and work their way back up. However, they'd still have a stadium, and training ground and anything else they essentially managed to separate from the bankrupt football club

It seems to be pretty clear now that some of the SPL clubs won't let Rangers get away with any perceived debt dodge and will force any Phoenix club out of the league.

Police are now investigating.

 

[jamesy505]

To be fair, I also don't know how far along the case was when he took over, did it look like a real possibility this tax case was going to go all the way when he took over, or did he essentially buy a club with not much debt, then learn over time that he's essentially going to be asked to pay tax on several years wages from years before, and he's been rather screwed as well?

When Whyte took over, he knew of the potential £49mil tax case and the £4.2mil tax case which is also under dispute. However the money for the small amount has been ringfenced by a court and another £1mil approx for Bain and McIntyre (former directors).

Whtye spent month's on due diligence, so should have known Rangers were living outwith their means - even if you ingore the bix tax case.

I would have thought that if Whyte has transferred the stadium, training park, Ticketus money to a parent company and let Rangers go into administration over the current £9mil tax bill, to be able to write off the debt and start again with the stadium, training park and Ticketus money is nothing short of theft.

I would hope the authorities would look into that if that situation arose.

 

[londonbairn]

Something does not add up for sure, and it does not help that the media coverage is somewhat sporadic. The best info seems to be coming from forums. Even then, no one is for sure what's fact, and then it does not help that the administrators are accused to have links with CW.

 

[233]

had an interesting chat with my old man about this last night(he works for a large firm who deal with administrations etc and he was saying that there was a general concensus among administrator companies that no one wanted to touch rangers with a 20 foot pole This is coming from a company who have dealt with football clubs in the past (including scottish teams) Perhaps Duff and phelps are the only administrators that would take rangers on?
The general concensus in financial circles is that Whyte is either very very stupid or very very smart and about to make a complete fortune

 

[steve1873]

had an interesting chat with my old man about this last night(he works for a large firm who deal with administrations etc and he was saying that there was a general concensus among administrator companies that no one wanted to touch rangers with a 20 foot pole This is coming from a company who have dealt with football clubs in the past (including scottish teams) Perhaps Duff and phelps are the only administrators that would take rangers on?
The general concensus in financial circles is that Whyte is either very very stupid or very very smart and about to make a complete fortune

That doesnt make any sense at all. The administration firm are paid a fee for their services, and are not affected whether the club is liquidated or a cva agreed. That is like saying no solicitor would want to take on a particular case!

 

[Biohazard]

It seems to be pretty clear now that some of the SPL clubs won't let Rangers get away with any perceived debt dodge and will force any Phoenix club out of the league.

Police are now investigating.

Only too right, what precidence does it set otherwise?

If they are liquidated they should start at the bottom of the third, not a quick dodgy handshake with the SFA and back in the SPL. Otherwise you've thrown open a mechanism meant to promote stability and responsibility in clubs.

Oh aye, c'mon the Dons!!!

 

[spudbynight]

I quite like Rangers. I don't really follow Scottish football but if I had to choose a team I would choose Rangers.

I can't condone them escaping their obligations to us, the taxpayer though. My view is the same as that when Portsmouth were in trouble. Football Clubs have existed for too long by breaking rules and screwing over HMRC. Until a club is called to account properly and settles it affairs with HMRC then this will continue.

I don't have an axe to grind with Rangers but HMRC are in the right here and acting for all of us.

 

[spudbynight]

That doesnt make any sense at all. The administration firm are paid a fee for their services, and are not affected whether the club is liquidated or a cva agreed. That is like saying no solicitor would want to take on a particular case!

Possibly the reason why administrators didn't want to handle Rangers is down to reputation. If this turns out to be dirtier than first thought a certain amount of mud will stick to the firm handling the administration.

 

[233]

Possibly the reason why administrators didn't want to handle Rangers is down to reputation. If this turns out to be dirtier than first thought a certain amount of mud will stick to the firm handling the administration.

that and a certain section of nutter fans who may target the administrators.

it has happened before when an administrator dealing with a scottish club received death threats