The RT Related Games, Benchmarks, Software, Etc Thread.

[Nexus18]

Shock horror as the usual suspects are dissing rtx and probably have no intentions nor ever will play the game for themselves


Must say, I wasn't expecting it to really make a change for this given it's mainly just the reflections but actually quite surprising just how much of an impact it has had on the overall visual quality of the game, as noted, far more surfaces look better than just glass/mirrors/shiny metal finishes.

Also, whilst the character model doesn't exactly line up with what you would expect to see, that is one minor flaw, 99% of the other reflections are substantially better but as per usual, people always love to look only at the bad things....

And main superior advantage is that you don't have reflections disappear look or distorted/weird i.e. days gone, exact same position/spot, just a different camera angle, extremely immersion breaking

I would love to see AMD take performance lead in both rasta and rt next gen. AMD could use the market share and it will be fun seeing AMD fan boys changing their tune at the very least as suddenly rt will become important

Yup I am thoroughly looking forward to that day, might have to start saving certain peoples posts now I am fully expecting amd to exceed nvidia in RT perf. but only if they start to make pc a priority again and not an afterthought as portrayed with all their late live events....

I don't care about rasterisation any more, cards are fast enough (for me anyway). I would like to see AMD focus on PC again and take a win with raytracing.

Same, as shown by sony, microsoft and developers, ray tracing is here right now and it's the future whether people like it or not. I wasn't a fan of ray tracing at all because it was utterly **** at release with bf 5 and metro original but control, cyberpunk, metro enhanced, deliver us the moon and even resident evil village amongst other titles have changed my mind.

Can't wait for bf 2042, dying light 2, atomic heart, the ascent and crysis 2 + 3 rtx remasters.

PS.

RDR 2 mirror reflections are very good too.

 

[Calin Banc]

Of course. Look the FPS have this problem for years, you don't see the same thing...Who cares? Ray Tracing was about realism, not having those fake lights or reflections and so on. Now we make excuses for why the reflections don't look real.
Look at the little lesbian from TLOU2, that's how a real reflection should look like.

That i think is called RTT (Render To Texture) and you use a 2nd camera to "film/record" the image from the perspective of the mirror, meaning you have to render the scene twice: one from your persepctive and then 2nd from the perspective of the mirror. So is expensive also peformance wise. In small places like that can be done, but when you want to apply it to many mirror like surfaces and large areas... good luck.

Anyway, Ray/path tracing is so much more than just reflections.

 

[Wrinkly]

Wow, that actually looks great to be fair. That's the first actual Ray Tracing effect I've seen that is impressive.

Except that is not RT but great talent from Naughty Dog. I don't care how it is done or who does it but if we talk about realism in RT then we should demand more than those fake reflections.

Oh people care about RT, they just don't understand what it is or what they are looking at. Their favourite games if not using real time RT will be using pre baked RT.

 

[LtMatt]

Shock horror as the usual suspects are dissing rtx and probably have no intentions nor ever will play the game for themselves

I take it by RTX you mean Ray Tracing?

I've played Doom Eternal, even re-downloaded it yesterday to have a play.

It runs very well, was seeing 75-120 FPS with the 6900 XT overclocked at 4K.

Sadly though, and as with all other games (regardless of who sponsors it before you put your fanboy hat on), RT adds nothing to the game.

Can barely tell a difference with it enabled if you don't have an FPS counter enabled to measure the performance hit.

Doom Eternal is not helped that the game is still pretty terrible when compared to the original Doom released in 2016.

It's a shame, if that was Ray Tracing in TLOU2 I would have actually been impressed for once.

I will continue to keep expectations low for now. Don't get me started on that Lego game either.

 

[Nexus18]

Ok so if ray tracing "adds nothing", explain why sony, microsoft and developers are pushing for ray tracing in their games? Also, explain why all tech press point out the substantial differences it brings to games (even from HU....)?

And yes, "rtx" is nvidias marketing name for their sponsored "ray tracing" and dlss games.

 

[LtMatt]

Ok so if ray tracing "adds nothing", explain why sony, microsoft and developers are pushing for ray tracing in their games? Also, explain why all tech press point out the substantial differences it brings to games (even from HU....)?

And yes, "rtx" is nvidias marketing name for their sponsored "ray tracing" and dlss games.

I'm talking about Ray Tracing period.

Ray Tracing will become more common and hopefully better used, things have to start somewhere. It does not mean the first implementations are any good though.

These things will improve over time, because up to now the improvement to visuals is questionable and the cost to performance is heavy.

Once we reach a stage where gamers can tell the difference between Ray Tracing on and off, we should reach a stage where the image quality improvements are significant enough to replace more traditional methods.

We are not there yet.

 

[Nexus18]

I'm talking about Ray Tracing period.

Ray Tracing will become more common and hopefully better used, things have to start somewhere. It does not mean the first implementations are any good though.

These things will improve over time, because up to now the improvement to visuals is questionable and the cost to performance is heavy.

Once we reach a stage where gamers can tell the difference between Ray Tracing on and off, we should reach a stage where the image quality improvements are significant enough to replace more traditional methods.

We are not there yet.

Except once again, gamers can tell the difference between ray tracing on and off as it is right now in games which are out now.... to say it "adds nothing" or insinuating that gamers can't tell the difference is just completely and utterly wrong (if you or others can't tell the difference, then ultimately that is an issue on your end, it's a bit like people who say they can't tell the difference between 60hz and 144hz or can't see the difference between oled and lcd panels and sdr vs hdr....) otherwise we wouldn't have any ray tracing games at all and it would be abandoned right now.

 

[Wrinkly]

I'm talking about Ray Tracing period.

Ray Tracing will become more common and hopefully better used, things have to start somewhere. It does not mean the first implementations are any good though.

These things will improve over time, because up to now the improvement to visuals is questionable and the cost to performance is heavy.

Once we reach a stage where gamers can tell the difference between Ray Tracing on and off, we should reach a stage where the image quality improvements are significant enough to replace more traditional methods.

We are not there yet.

Some of us are

 

[LtMatt]

Except once again, gamers can tell the difference between ray tracing on and off as it is right now in games which are out now.... to say it "adds nothing" or insinuating that gamers can't tell the difference is just completely and utterly wrong (if you or others can't tell the difference, then ultimately that is an issue on your end, it's a bit like people who say they can't tell the difference between 60hz and 144hz or can't see the difference between oled and lcd panels and sdr vs hdr....) otherwise we wouldn't have any ray tracing games at all and it would be abandoned right now.

Sure some will tell the difference, people that are regularly using RT or have experience with this type of thing, but we are in the minority.

Linus did a blind test and only the people with experience in 3D rendering and regularly using RT at home could tell the difference between on and off. The other people couldn't tell the difference.

It really should be obvious to all if RT is that good, more realistic etc without having to pixel peep to tell a difference between on or off.

 

[oguzsoso]

honestly so far im impressed with rt in cyberpunk, no matter what I think of nvidia's questionable ethics

same goes for metro exodus ee, but i never played the original so dont know if the impressive visuals are inherent from the game itself or if it owes to rt lighting or not

 

[LtMatt]

honestly so far im impressed with rt in cyberpunk, no matter what I think of nvidia's questionable ethics

same goes for metro exodus ee, but i never played the original so dont know if the impressive visuals are inherent from the game itself or if it owes to rt lighting or not

Metro definitely seems one of the better ones, but Cyberpunk just looks horribly overdone to me.

 

[oguzsoso]

Metro definitely seems one of the better ones, but Cyberpunk just looks horribly overdone to me.

for me that crown goes to watch dogs legion, city is full of puddles... just to showcase rt reflections

cyberpunk is not completely like that, at least

this comes to a personal preference... dont know what else to say.

but linus video... is a bit misleading. shadow of tomb raider is a really weak RT representation, and cyberpunk itself benefits from rt shadows more than sottr. but to give them their due, sottr has amazingly good shadows to begin with, and cyberpunk's native shadows are lackluster so rt shadows adds more value to that game (but thats a point where the game is problematic, not shadow rendering itself)

i played godfall with rt shadows and saw no perceptible visual differences, same for dirt 5. it was like "meh wut". i don't even call these "rt" games, all that BHV calculation is wasted on shadows alone... its a bit weird situation.

 

[Nexus18]

Sure some will tell the difference, people that are regularly using RT or have experience with this type of thing, but we are in the minority.

Linus did a blind test and only the people with experience in 3D rendering and regularly using RT at home could tell the difference between on and off. The other people couldn't tell the difference.

It really should be obvious to all if RT is that good, more realistic etc without having to pixel peep to tell a difference between on or off.

And as pointed out many times before their test was extremely flawed, they just used shadow tomb of the raider which is probably the worst implementation to date and it only had ray tracing shadows, which most people don't even care for in the first place anyway (the shadow graphical effects that is).....

Time to look at the present and the future and stop living in the past. Ray tracing has come along way since bf 5 and sottr.

This here is just one example for just ray tracing reflections, if you think you need to pixel peep to see the difference, well.... specsavers time






And as per metro exodus enhanced, it is the global illumination where ray tracing really does shine.

Resident evil village ray tracing is also noticeable despite also being dumbed down for amd/consoles:

https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/resident-evil-village-is-one-of-the-best-ray-tracing-games-yet

 

[LtMatt]

for me that crown goes to watch dogs legion, city is full of puddles... just to showcase rt reflections

cyberpunk is not completely like that, at least

this comes to a personal preference... dont know what else to say.

but linus video... is a bit misleading. shadow of tomb raider is a really weak RT representation, and cyberpunk itself benefits from rt shadows more than sottr. but to give them their due, sottr has amazingly good shadows to begin with, and cyberpunk's native shadows are lackluster so rt shadows adds more value to that game (but thats a point where the game is problematic, not shadow rendering itself)

i played godfall with rt shadows and saw no perceptible visual differences, same for dirt 5. it was like "meh wut". i don't even call these "rt" games, all that BHV calculation is wasted on shadows alone... its a bit weird situation.

Never played Watchdogs, but yeah agree on Godfall and Dirt, adds nothing to the game just like all most other implentations.

And as pointed out many times before their test was extremely flawed, they just used shadow tomb of the raider which is probably the worst implementation to date and it only had ray tracing shadows, which most people don't even care for in the first place anyway (the shadow graphical effects that is).....

Time to look at the present and the future and stop living in the past. Ray tracing has come along way since bf 5 and sottr.

This here is just one example for just ray tracing reflections, if you think you need to pixel peep to see the difference, well.... specsavers time

Spoiler

And as per metro exodus enhanced, it is the global illumination where ray tracing really does shine.

Resident evil village ray tracing is also noticeable despite also being dumbed down for amd/consoles:

https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/resident-evil-village-is-one-of-the-best-ray-tracing-games-yet

No, I'm quite happy living in the past. Those were the good old days, I still remember the hit parade.

The difference is clear there I agree, largely because there's a astronaught there but you don't typically see clear differences like that.

It doesn't look that impressive though considering the performance hit to me. Not familiar with that game though tbf.

 

[Obliter8]

RT can and does make a huge difference to how 'realistic' a game world looks - and therefore how well you are immersed in it. Metro is the poster boy for me: https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/...de-metro-exodus-enhanced-edition-pc-exclusive

 

[oguzsoso]

Never played Watchdogs, but yeah agree on Godfall and Dirt, adds nothing to the game just like all most other implentations.



No, I'm quite happy living in the past. Those were the good old days, I still remember the hit parade.

The difference is clear there I agree, largely because there's a astronaught there but you don't typically see clear differences like that.

It doesn't look that impressive though considering the performance hit to me. Not familiar with that game though tbf.

never play it, i tell you, i installed it when it was in free weekend and wish i didn't. i felt sad for the nand writes i had to sacrifice for that CRAP game. imagination and the creativity of ubisoft is long gone for watch dogs it seems. they are still "trying" something with ac series, but watch dogs... have died

 

[nvidiamd]

Also, whilst the character model doesn't exactly line up with what you would expect to see, that is one minor flaw...

And main superior advantage is that you don't have reflections disappear look or distorted/weird i.e. days gone, exact same position/spot, just a different camera angle, extremely immersion breaking

Spoiler

So not seeing your reflection or seeing a faked one is a minor flaw but SSR dissapearing under certain angles is extremely gamebreaking?
For the record i wasn't trashing ray tracing because as you proved later, you can have good reflections of yourself. I was trashing these implementations of ray tracing, everyone is talking about real reflections, real lights etc and then you see that. It is developers laziness i was criticizing, not ray tracing.

This here is just one example for just ray tracing reflections, if you think you need to pixel peep to see the difference, well.... specsavers time

Spoiler

The first image is ray traced?
This is the worst example you could find after you said not having your reflection or having a bad one is such a minor flaw. Yes the first image is worse but is it gamebreaking? Just a minor flaw...

 

[Nexus18]

So not seeing your reflection or seeing a faked one is a minor flaw but SSR dissapearing under certain angles is extremely gamebreaking?
For the record i wasn't trashing ray tracing because as you proved later, you can have good reflections of yourself. I was trashing these implementations of ray tracing, everyone is talking about real reflections, real lights etc and then you see that. It is developers laziness i was criticizing, not ray tracing.

The first image is ray traced?
This is the worst example you could find after you said not having your reflection or having a bad one is such a minor flaw. Yes the first image is worse but is it gamebreaking? Just a minor flaw...

It is to me, I have always noticed it but since experiencing and seeing ray traced reflections, the issue stands out even more now. In a game such as cyberpunk, days gone etc. where there are lots of reflections either from glass/windows, puddles/water and metal surfaces etc. the difference not having that issue makes is massive on the experience.

There is a bit of a difference between an extremely minor gun movement not matching up exactly and having the player model completely missing.....

As per a reply to that tweet:

FPP utilises hidden animations from a TPP (like any other shooter). So, for example, other players that we see in COD, hold their gun differently from our perspective to how they see it. This is a reflection of the TPP model, not FPP "model".

And either way, I much rather have ray tracing turned on in the game than off. Is it "perfect", nope but it is still a better option than faked/SSR solution.

 

[Grim5]

DLSS just keeps getting better

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dtbqJXb1UDw

 

[Grim5]

That i think is called RTT (Render To Texture) and you use a 2nd camera to "film/record" the image from the perspective of the mirror, meaning you have to render the scene twice: one from your persepctive and then 2nd from the perspective of the mirror. So is expensive also peformance wise. In small places like that can be done, but when you want to apply it to many mirror like surfaces and large areas... good luck.

Anyway, Ray/path tracing is so much more than just reflections.

Yes it looks nice but that's more because it's Naughty Dog, and they put way more effort into Hero assets, animations and mocap than any other developer in the industry and less to do with the graphical technique, which requires a lot of time, effort and resources to do and is performance intensive anyway.

I remember when games first started using this technique for mirrors in the late 90s/early 2000s a lot of people would disable it in the game menu because it would hit graphics card very hard - and developers would place these mirrors in very clean looking rooms so that the player isn't distracted to something that could break the immersion like picking up a brick and seeing it not reflected back.