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The Sandy, Ivy and Haswell (Hazzy?) Upgrade Thread

Another 2500K owner here and still not even overclocked it.
I'll certainly be waiting for reviews on Ryzen 3000 but also think I'll hang fire and not purchase until nearer winter. In the mean time, I think I'll educate myself on overclocking my current setup and if it goes wrong. So be it. I'll just have to upgrade :)

Edit to add: I've started buying little bits for my upgrade such as an 1TB MP510 NVME drive and a 2TB MX500 for data storage.
 
michty_me said:
Another 2500K owner here and still not even overclocked it.
I'll certainly be waiting for reviews on Ryzen 3000 but also think I'll hang fire and not purchase until nearer winter. In the mean time, I think I'll educate myself on overclocking my current setup and if it goes wrong. So be it. I'll just have to upgrade :)

Edit to add: I've started buying little bits for my upgrade such as an 1TB MP510 NVME drive and a 2TB MX500 for data storage.
Click to expand...
Overclocking the 2500K is VERY easy if you are ok with just moderate overclocking rather than really pushing it.

Without even need to tinker with the voltage figures, on stock voltage it should have no problem reaching 4.0-4.2GHz. You literally go into the bios, and change the multiply number to 40 (for 4.0GHz) or 42 (for 4.2GHz), then save and exit the bios and reboot, and that's all it is to it! But obviously your motherboard much have a Z chipset in order to overclock.
 
Oblivion007 said:
4770K @ 4.4Ghz owner here. Very tempted by the 12c part.

I just hope x570 motherboards don't price this upgrade out of the value for money territory.
Click to expand...

I'm expecting pricing somewhat inline with Z390 where really you need to spend £200+ to get decent VRM's and possibly 6 layer board for decent memory OC. Feature boards will be £300+ and high end boards £400+
There will be cheaper X570 boards but they'll be a compromise somewhere, most likely in OC potential on the 12/16 core chips and memory.


On performance per Watt AMD will have the lead but a 12 core CPU overclocked is going to reach 9900K levels of power consumption. (The Ryzen 8 core cinebench tech demo used 71%, 130W vs 180W for 9900k), simply multiplying 130W by 1.5 times number of cores gives us 195W but there are some platform losses in there, chipset, PSU efficiency etc so say 170W stock platform with cores boosting similar to 3800X. Quoted 12 core TDP vs 3800X suggests conservative per core and multicore boosts but I expect with we'll be at 200W+ easily with OC. As for any OC on the rumoured 16 core.....I'll get the sausages.

While some may disagree on power there is a reason that manufactures are adding massive VRM’s and it isn’t 105W TDP.

I'm poised waiting for benchmarks but considering:
9700k / Z390
3800X / B450 or X470


Or going all out for the
3900X / X570

I don't see a huge benefit right now for X570 expect for storage or multiple high end GPU unless bought with the 12/16 core chips where those VRM's will get toasty.

If the performance of the 3800X is decent, then I'll probably whack it in a higher end B450.
Really not sure I have the use case for 12 cores ... it's just shiny.
 
2500k here as well. Has served me well but I am long overdue an upgrade.

So I will be upgrading to something when Zen 2 comes out. Not sure what I am going to be upgrading to yet. 3700 seems a good upgrade to future proof myself again. But it all depends on benchmarks and if the price seems worth it. Otherwise 3600 seems like a bargain.
 
decto said:
On performance per Watt AMD will have the lead but a 12 core CPU overclocked is going to reach 9900K levels of power consumption. (The Ryzen 8 core cinebench tech demo used 71%, 130W vs 180W for 9900k), simply multiplying 130W by 1.5 times number of cores gives us 195W
Click to expand...
CPU consumption was only 70-80W of that.
Depending on used PSU, already 10W of 130W could have been PSU losses.
In fact unless it was 80+ Titanium PSU, 10W PSU losses are pretty much minimum with US low voltage.
http://www.silentpcreview.com/A_Better_Way_to_Compare_PSU_Efficiency
 
9900k is pretty frugal when you leave MCE off and it kicks back to 4.2Ghz on all cores to comply with TDP, just the the mobo manufactures 'cheat' the TDP, most likely with Intels blessing which drives up the power usage massively as silicon still doesn't like high frequencies.
Given the base and boost clocks are very similar for the 3800X and 3900X they physically can't have the same TDP unless the 3900X is very conservitive on boost clocks.

Once you start overclocking, or install a more power hungry CPU that 10%+ loss in the PSU, 5%+ in the VRM etc all increase proportionatly, the 9900k was drawing more power but the gap in power draw is exagerated between the two CPU's as it also includes proportioanlly increased platfrom losses on the 9900k. Useful for the power bill but not when comparing CPU only consumption.

Many of the VRM's on X570 are capable of 500W peak with 2-300W 24/7. If you compare Auous boards between Z390 and X570, the X570 has either more channels in the VRM or uses higher rated components. I read somewhere the top end board uses 14 channels with 70A parts, that is some serious power once you hit 1.4V though in reallity the chips will use a lot less and the VRM's are over designed to keep them cool. Still, manufacturers are clearly putting bigger VRM's on Ryzen boards hence the increased cost and likely additional layers required to get that power anywhere useful.

Looking at the original X470 Aurous boards ... meh they don't match up well to the Z390. They are fine to OC a 2700X, A 3700X and 3800X should be a little more efficent so fine for those as well. Stock 3900X should be no problem however 12/16 cores with a decent all core OC is less likely on these boards and that shouldn't be a surprise given Z390 is Z370 tweaked for the 9900K,
 
Marine-RX179 said:
Overclocking the 2500K is VERY easy if you are ok with just moderate overclocking rather than really pushing it.

Without even need to tinker with the voltage figures, on stock voltage it should have no problem reaching 4.0-4.2GHz. You literally go into the bios, and change the multiply number to 40 (for 4.0GHz) or 42 (for 4.2GHz), then save and exit the bios and reboot, and that's all it is to it! But obviously your motherboard much have a Z chipset in order to overclock.
Click to expand...

That's what I had read about it. I'll sit and play about with it when I get home as I do have a Z chipset board.
 
decto said:
On performance per Watt AMD will have the lead but a 12 core CPU overclocked is going to reach 9900K levels of power consumption. (The Ryzen 8 core cinebench tech demo used 71%, 130W vs 180W for 9900k), simply multiplying 130W by 1.5 times number of cores gives us 195W but there are some platform losses in there, chipset, PSU efficiency etc so say 170W stock platform with cores boosting similar to 3800X. Quoted 12 core TDP vs 3800X suggests conservative per core and multicore boosts but I expect with we'll be at 200W+ easily with OC. As for any OC on the rumoured 16 core.....I'll get the sausages.
Click to expand...

A significant percentage of the total package power is that of the I/O chiplet which will not alter a great deal as the core count increases. I believe that back in Jan when CES was on, I worked out that it was about 7-7.5w per core, if using a 105w TDP as the benchmark. So you need to add only 30w to the TDP for a normal 16c part, against that of the 12c, again assuming the binning of the 8c chiplets means that they are getting the same or more frequency for the same volts supplied.

So yes 200W+ easily done, but on the 16c not the 12c, but I am sure if you wanted to put as much voltage as you could through the 12c it would easily surpass 250w, if you have the cooling, and the process/chiplets can cope. :)
 
michty_me said:
Another 2500K owner here and still not even overclocked it.
I'll certainly be waiting for reviews on Ryzen 3000 but also think I'll hang fire and not purchase until nearer winter. In the mean time, I think I'll educate myself on overclocking my current setup and if it goes wrong. So be it. I'll just have to upgrade :)

Edit to add: I've started buying little bits for my upgrade such as an 1TB MP510 NVME drive and a 2TB MX500 for data storage.
Click to expand...

I'm using my 970 Pro nvme on my asus p8z77-v lx mobo, fairly straightforward bios mod.
 
Journey said:
A significant percentage of the total package power is that of the I/O chiplet which will not alter a great deal as the core count increases. I believe that back in Jan when CES was on, I worked out that it was about 7-7.5w per core, if using a 105w TDP as the benchmark. So you need to add only 30w to the TDP for a normal 16c part, against that of the 12c, again assuming the binning of the 8c chiplets means that they are getting the same or more frequency for the same volts supplied.

So yes 200W+ easily done, but on the 16c not the 12c, but I am sure if you wanted to put as much voltage as you could through the 12c it would easily surpass 250w, if you have the cooling, and the process/chiplets can cope. :)
Click to expand...

The 2700X can pull 200W on the EPS12V @ 4.2Ghz 1.4 Vcore
https://www.gamersnexus.net/guides/3290-exponential-ryzen-voltage-frequency-curve

The 3800X gains 200Mhz base and 150Mhz boost vs the 2700X at the same 105W TDP so while power consumption is significantly better at low voltages, it shows the same behaviour as the step between 1800X and 2700X where power usage climbs rapidly with frequency at the top end. A 5% boost in clocks at static TDP doesn't suggest a massive amount of headroom without neededing a lot more power. This is further illustrated by the 40W TDP uplift between 3700X and 3800X which is attributable to more cores with modest boost filling the extra TDP headroom easily.

I suspect a 3800X pushed hard will start to hit thermal limits around 160W on most coolers as shown in the link where they switched cooler, but we should get 100-200Mhz higher all core than 2700X at this point. Start adding more cores at these clocks and you're going to need an 360mm AIO or full water cooling to keep temperatures under control and soak up well over 200W.

I'll even wager the lack of 16 core is due to power dissapation and the the 16 core CPU will lauch later but with non gaming marketing as it would be significanly thermally limited in many situations with OC able to take it to 350W+ hence those nice beefy VRM's we see. Last thing AMD wants is for the story to be that Ryzen doesn't scale well.

Overall 13-15% IPC + 5% + core and hopefully decent boost with good cooling is a significant single core and multicore increase and should make these CPU's great, hence why AMD feel they can push prices a little on the 8 core.

However I still state now, 12 and 16 core will be very hot chips to OC and need a lot of thermal headroom to maintain boost clocks.
 
Now we've seen the full range of launch CPUs (I assume!) I think I'll be getting a 3900x I'm slightly cautious that I got a 4770k and not long after the 4790k released running cooler and 4/500MHz faster which is quite a lot! I guess it will be a year or so until the refined Zen 2 is out... Which is a long time :p
 
almoststew1990 said:
Now we've seen the full range of launch CPUs (I assume!) I think I'll be getting a 3900x I'm slightly cautious that I got a 4770k and not long after the 4790k released running cooler and 4/500MHz faster which is quite a lot! I guess it will be a year or so until the refined Zen 2 is out... Which is a long time :p
Click to expand...

Will be doing the same 4770k to 3900X. Biggest decision I have to make is whether to go full watercooling on CPU & GPU or just an AIO on the CPU.
 
killem said:
Will be doing the same 4770k to 3900X. Biggest decision I have to make is whether to go full watercooling on CPU & GPU or just an AIO on the CPU.
Click to expand...
I was going to ask this question earlier about AIO's and the best air coolers. I guess we won't know until they are out being run every day.
 
michty_me said:
I was going to ask this question earlier about AIO's and the best air coolers. I guess we won't know until they are out being run every day.
Click to expand...

Will probably go with a fractal design 360 aio, I use the 240 currently and it is nice and quite so the 360 version will give me some headroom if the 12 core is a hot chip.
 
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