The Tesla Thread

What's the 4wd like compared to say a rwd (bmw:p) M3 in something like snow? I had a few hairy moments on summers early this year and just wondered how they compared. I tried googling but seems to bring up places like Canada which is a bit extreme compared to here:cry:.
 
theone8181 said:
What's the 4wd like compared to say a rwd (bmw:p) M3 in something like snow? I had a few hairy moments on summers early this year and just wondered how they compared. I tried googling but seems to bring up places like Canada which is a bit extreme compared to here:cry:.
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Increased traction (marginally), and 4WD doesn’t make braking better. 2WD on winter tyres is way better than 4WD on summers.
 
Model 3 Long Range coming to me end of September.

With the savings over not paying for the performance (£10k) means I could purchase the in-app performance (£1500), new wheels (£2000) AND have considerable money to spare at near the same performance.

The sales rep at the local Tesla centre said as much tbh. Im going for the Andersen A2 charger as it can technically accept 3 phase at a later date, without replacing the whole unit.
 
EVH said:
Model 3 Long Range coming to me end of September.

With the savings over not paying for the performance (£10k) means I could purchase the in-app performance (£1500), new wheels (£2000) AND have considerable money to spare at near the same performance.

The sales rep at the local Tesla centre said as much tbh. Im going for the Andersen A2 charger as it can technically accept 3 phase at a later date, without replacing the whole unit.
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I think unless you plan to use it on a track there's not much point in getting the performance on for the road imo when the LR with performance addin will be stupid fast.
 
Greebo said:
Yep. In Scandinavian countries they would much rather drive a 2 wheel car on snow tyres than a 4wd on summer. But 4wd on snow tyres is better still.
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Oh I reasoned that but I just wondered how they compared to summer tyres on a normal car. I've heard that the 4wd is much faster to respond on the tesla due to more computer gubbins, but not sure if that's true. I assume it would be less likely to make the rear wheels go infront of the front ones:cry:.
 
EVH said:
Model 3 Long Range coming to me end of September.

With the savings over not paying for the performance (£10k) means I could purchase the in-app performance (£1500), new wheels (£2000) AND have considerable money to spare at near the same performance.

The sales rep at the local Tesla centre said as much tbh. Im going for the Andersen A2 charger as it can technically accept 3 phase at a later date, without replacing the whole unit.
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There is an in-depth review between the LR and performance on youtube. Conclusion was the difference was not noticeable, but surprisingly the LR did beat the performance in a few of the tests.

Something like 50-100mph the LR was quicker. It also had a shorter stopping distance, despite the weaker? brakes.
 
NathWraith said:
Nearly 6 years since this post and yet all of the above still apply to Electric cars.

Tell me again how Electric cars will replace ICE.
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Charging is getting more widespread and faster. Range is comfortably over 200 miles on larger battery models of the popular cars.

Coming up on 2 years with our Model 3 LR and none of what you are concerned about is even a consideration. I've driven it 1000 miles across Europe without a 2nd thought and a few weeks ago I left home on 20% charge needing to do a 150 mile round trip and all that involved was a very small detour (no different to going to a petrol station) and browsing the internet for 15 minutes whilst it charged up.
 
theone8181 said:
Oh I reasoned that but I just wondered how they compared to summer tyres on a normal car. I've heard that the 4wd is much faster to respond on the tesla due to more computer gubbins, but not sure if that's true. I assume it would be less likely to make the rear wheels go infront of the front ones:cry:.
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The only advantage that 4wd has on snow over a 2wd car is getting moving, and the 4wd of an electric is better than a mechanical system as the motors can be far more finely controlled. Stopping and steering are dependent on the tyres and a 2wd ICE vehicle on winters will be far superior in that respect than an electric car on summers.
 
The RWD car is perfectly fine in the snow and the main benefit comes from it being electric. The power train is so much more controllable at low speed, you aren’t reliant on clutches, gearboxes, torque converters, creep etc. or having to spin up an engine.

The consistent power and torque delivery from 0rpm makes it rather easy to control, same applies to any electric and isn’t a Tesla thing.
 
without this turning into the perennial winter tyres 4wd debate..... its just not at all true that 4wd cars only offer benefits in moving off in snow... engine braking on all four wheels is a thing. I also dont buy that electric is better in the snow. Full time 4wd vehicles drive all four wheels mechanically which means there i no lag between a sensor and motor doing something like there would be in an electric vehicle which relies upon seperate motors and sensors working across its axles. If there were an electric vehicle which still had a centre diff etc it would be more comparable. An assumption here, but given electirc cars have such great low down torque - this would make them worse on snow surely? as the huge torque allows breaking of traction very easily.
 
Did the longest trip i've done in my M3 recently, Newcastle and back. Very easy with the sat nav calculating where was best to stop etc. Left with 58%, drop up to Grantham and had a coffee for 20 minutes whilst it charged from ~20 to 70%, then carried on my way. Charging seemed to top out at 120kw.

On the way back, quite similar but the supercharger and services in general were busier. This meant that idle fees at the supercharger were enabled, and I hadn't even got my lunch from burger king before I had to go back to the car and unplug and move it otherwise it would have charged me £0.50/minute. So in this instance, the car charged faster than I was able to get in and out of the services with a meal (Grantham services are a bit rubbish to be fair). So the long journey side of things was very easy.
 
daz said:
Did the longest trip i've done in my M3 recently, Newcastle and back. Very easy with the sat nav calculating where was best to stop etc. Left with 58%, drop up to Grantham and had a coffee for 20 minutes whilst it charged from ~20 to 70%, then carried on my way. Charging seemed to top out at 120kw.

On the way back, quite similar but the supercharger and services in general were busier. This meant that idle fees at the supercharger were enabled, and I hadn't even got my lunch from burger king before I had to go back to the car and unplug and move it otherwise it would have charged me £0.50/minute. So in this instance, the car charged faster than I was able to get in and out of the services with a meal (Grantham services are a bit rubbish to be fair). So the long journey side of things was very easy.
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The fees kick in when you hit 100% ?
 
MSTRBKR said:
because they’re banning them :cry:
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How well is this working for diesels exacty?

Del Lardo said:
Charging is getting more widespread and faster. Range is comfortably over 200 miles on larger battery models of the popular cars.

Coming up on 2 years with our Model 3 LR and none of what you are concerned about is even a consideration. I've driven it 1000 miles across Europe without a 2nd thought and a few weeks ago I left home on 20% charge needing to do a 150 mile round trip and all that involved was a very small detour (no different to going to a petrol station) and browsing the internet for 15 minutes whilst it charged up.
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Sorry I fail to believe you managed to find a vacant charger everytime over 1000 miles with only a 15 minute stop? Did you travel excusively between midnight & 4?

This is classic EV owners "just a small detour", "just like going to a petrol station" clap trap.

Thing is, im not against EV having a place in the automotive world. Three of of the four cars in the household are hybrids. I just can't stand when EV owners all echo "just as good" when it comes to the practicialities of ownership vs ICE.

I feel the Eco elements is just an admonishment of guilt too. See no evil hear no evil.
 
mikeh501 said:
without this turning into the perennial winter tyres 4wd debate..... its just not at all true that 4wd cars only offer benefits in moving off in snow... engine braking on all four wheels is a thing. I also dont buy that electric is better in the snow. Full time 4wd vehicles drive all four wheels mechanically which means there i no lag between a sensor and motor doing something like there would be in an electric vehicle which relies upon seperate motors and sensors working across its axles. If there were an electric vehicle which still had a centre diff etc it would be more comparable. An assumption here, but given electirc cars have such great low down torque - this would make them worse on snow surely? as the huge torque allows breaking of traction very easily.
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4wd systems are electromechanical and there is a huge amount of lag between the sensors, the control system and then the mechanical parts reacting to their control signals. As for excessive torque when moving off, the control system for an electric vehicle can finesse the torque output of the motor in the way that is impossible with an ICE.
 
NathWraith said:
How well is this working for diesels exactly?



Sorry I fail to believe you managed to find a vacant charger every time over 1000 miles with only a 15 minute stop? Did you travel exclusively between midnight & 4?

This is classic EV owners "just a small detour", "just like going to a petrol station" clap trap.

Thing is, im not against EV having a place in the automotive world. Three of of the four cars in the household are hybrids. I just can't stand when EV owners all echo "just as good" when it comes to the practicalities of ownership vs ICE.

I feel the Eco elements is just an admonishment of guilt too. See no evil hear no evil.
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Aren't you just being as pig headed as EV evangelists?

I'd never have bothered getting an EV due to the 'convenience' of our Diesel SUV, it can get 450 miles easily on a tank and I felt exactly as you are portraying, all the 'EV' would bring is faff.. However on borrowing one (twice) for a week, I found the exact opposite and wondered if I was actually now a bit LTTP.

- More relaxing to drive overall, loved the one pedal driving and loved the immediacy of the throttle, it was actually a little jarring jumping back in the Diesel X3 (x35d with the 8 speed auto).
- Since we charged either at the cottage, or grabbed a bit of top up whilst shopping at Tesco's (for free) , we never once had to deviate out of our way or spend any time visiting a garage to fill up, every morning the car is magically 'full' again, so whilst a reduced range, our trips never exceeded the range of the car so all was good. If 95% of our time would be doing that and only had the 'pain' of having to wait 30 minutes on extra special long journeys then I'd take more convenience 95% of the time over inconvenience the rest of the time.
- I never once had range anxiety due to looking on Zap Maps and realising just how many charging points are around, it's obviously no where near the number of garages, but wow, it's quantifiably a crap load more than 5 years ago and now I 'look' around when I'm passing or alongside EV charge points it's clearly obvious that they are generally 'vacant' and the infrastructure which is already impressive enough considering the number of EV's around, is just improving.
- Despite the i3 having a 33kw/h battery, it did have a range extender 'just in case', however we didn't remotely ever get close to needing it and after 2 weeks I realised that even with 33kw/h we could probably 'manage', but a 50-60kw/h EV would be easily enough.

I toyed with a PHEV thinking that would be a 'step' towards EV but better suited, however, as many will attest, it's the wrong choice for many and doesn't really capitalise on the EV convenience enough to offset the inconvenience in any meaningful way.

The inconvenience can be there of course, no denying it.. If I did 100+ miles a day and had to visit third party chargers regularly and couldn't charge from home then sure, ICE all the way for me, however, that's not what the majority of people do..
 
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