The Tesla Thread

[Del Lardo]

How well is this working for diesels exacty?



Sorry I fail to believe you managed to find a vacant charger everytime over 1000 miles with only a 15 minute stop? Did you travel excusively between midnight & 4?

This is classic EV owners "just a small detour", "just like going to a petrol station" clap trap.

Where did I say that it was only a 15 minute stop when going across Europe? For reference I was driving down the A120 on to the A12 as part of my journey so you can see the massive detour that I had to take.




As for driving across Europe.....

I didn't have to queue once and detours were a minute or two off the motorway at service stations.

Oh, I wasn't hanging around the Autobahn either, 130-150kph cruise which is about as fast as I'd go in a diesel BMW as otherwise it required another fuel stop which wasn't plug and wee.





Most of the charges were 15-20 minutes which is about a long as it takes me to use the toilet a get a coffee. There's a charge missing in Belgium where you can see I was stopped for 55 minutes but of that, only 30 mins was needed but as the Supercharger was next to a nice hotel I had a rather fine lunch. The other longer stop in Germany was when I stopped for lunch.

It's a journey I've done 6 times, including in a BMW with 600 mile range and I tended to stop once more per day than I would have done in the BMW. Journey time was within the range I would expect, traffic has far more impact on my expected arrival time than needing to stop to charge.

 

[NathWraith]

Aren't you just being as pig headed as EV evangelists?

I'd never have bothered getting an EV due to the 'convenience' of our Diesel SUV, it can get 450 miles easily on a tank and I felt exactly as you are portraying, all the 'EV' would bring is faff.. However on borrowing one (twice) for a week, I found the exact opposite and wondered if I was actually now a bit LTTP.

- More relaxing to drive overall, loved the one pedal driving and loved the immediacy of the throttle, it was actually a little jarring jumping back in the Diesel X3 (x35d with the 8 speed auto).
- Since we charged either at the cottage, or grabbed a bit of top up whilst shopping at Tesco's (for free) , we never once had to deviate out of our way or spend any time visiting a garage to fill up, every morning the car is magically 'full' again, so whilst a reduced range, our trips never exceeded the range of the car so all was good. If 95% of our time would be doing that and only had the 'pain' of having to wait 30 minutes on extra special long journeys then I'd take more convenience 95% of the time over inconvenience the rest of the time.
- I never once had range anxiety due to looking on Zap Maps and realising just how many charging points are around, it's obviously no where near the number of garages, but wow, it's quantifiably a crap load more than 5 years ago and now I 'look' around when I'm passing or alongside EV charge points it's clearly obvious that they are generally 'vacant' and the infrastructure which is already impressive enough considering the number of EV's around, is just improving.
- Despite the i3 having a 33kw/h battery, it did have a range extender 'just in case', however we didn't remotely ever get close to needing it and after 2 weeks I realised that even with 33kw/h we could probably 'manage', but a 50-60kw/h EV would be easily enough.

I toyed with a PHEV thinking that would be a 'step' towards EV but better suited, however, as many will attest, it's the wrong choice for many and doesn't really capitalise on the EV convenience enough to offset the inconvenience in any meaningful way.

The inconvenience can be there of course, no denying it.. If I did 100+ miles a day and had to visit third party chargers regularly and couldn't charge from home then sure, ICE all the way for me, however, that's not what the majority of people do..

Simply no. I am a driving enthusiast, so the EV appliance will never sway me over.

Forgot about he one pedal, strikes me like the old mac mouse with one button.

BIG DATA SNIP

You stopped near enough every 100 miles or less.

In an answer to another poster who I forgot to quote, yes maybe mr government will force me to drive an EV one day. Just because they are "banning ICE" sales doe not mean that ICE will be phased out. I'm likely to be dead or have paid a lot of money to keep my ICE cars by the time of a total EV takeoever. (I'm 30 fyi incase you think I'm some 70 year old "good ol' days kinda guy) in which case, yeah total EV take over isnt likely unless you live well into your 100s.

I'm happy enough being able to slink around in EV mode on the NSX as it's cool as a gimmick or go full beans with the ICE + electric, safe in the knowledge I have the dependability, drama & occasional of an ICE w/electric boost.

 

[Del Lardo]

You stopped near enough every 100 miles or less.

So you agree that your "just a small detour comment" was wrong then......

So let's look at the stops then (I'll do some minor rounding to make it easier)

Drive 1 - 120 miles - I reached my destination
Drive 2 - 2 miles - I drove on to the train
Drive 3 - 110 miles - Required stop
Drive 4 - 183 miles - 3 hour drive, about as long as my bladder will last
Drive 5 - 100 miles - I reached my destination
Drive 6 - 10 miles - Charged up and bought breakfast. I stopped at the same service station on the previous journey to fuel up and get breakfast
Drive 7 - 85 miles - Not a planned stop that threw off my plans for the day but curse my rubbish bladder!
Drive 8 - 103 miles - My planned stop, as I had extra charge I'd gone much faster than I otherwise would have
Drive 9 - 175 miles - 3 hour drive, about as long as my bladder will last
Drive 10 - 60 miles - I reached my destination

With two exceptions, the car either got to me the destination or my bladder gave out before it needed a charge and one of those exceptions would have been the exact same stop in my diesel BMW.

Worked out perfectly for me, maybe I should thank rather than curse my tiny bladder.

 

[mikeh501]

4wd systems are electromechanical and there is a huge amount of lag between the sensors, the control system and then the mechanical parts reacting to their control signals. As for excessive torque when moving off, the control system for an electric vehicle can finesse the torque output of the motor in the way that is impossible with an ICE.

Thats entirely depends on the 4wd system, which is why I said 'full time'. These systems drive all four wheels all the time mechanically, no sensors, no lag, no control system for normal driving, and some have entirely manual locking differentals too which negates the need for wheel grabbing traction control. Right now all these 4wd electric cars have very basic 4wd systems. Im not saying that one day they will make something more sophisticated but right now they are completely rubbish in comparison the best ICE systems.

Tesla dont have best in class 4wd systems, sorry for bursting your bubble.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqeRBcJ1fzs

It is a thing, of course, but the driven wheels on a RWD car won’t lock when engine braking on snow, so there’s no additional benefit to having 4WD there.

Kinda makes my point though, 4wd is of benefit other than moving off. You can use it to slow the car without touching the brakes, kinda useful imho especially in snow and going down hills. This is literally one of the reasons why your supposed to engine brake in a low gear when descending hills and with full time 4wd it makes it safer. touching the brakes is best avoided.

 

[jpaul]

4wd systems are electromechanical and there is a huge amount of lag between the sensors, the control system and then the mechanical parts reacting to their control signals. As for excessive torque when moving off, the control system for an electric vehicle can finesse the torque output of the motor in the way that is impossible with an ICE.

might be true for tesla M3, although afaik they removed heavy regen option because the car slipped in the ICE (ie. no finessing), kona is renown for wheel spin,
i3 also updated to KERS system on ev & petrol cars with mcu's located at the hubs to quickly monitor & react to slip - so for me jury is out on exemplary torque control on ev's.
Does tesla use a bosch system, or home brew.

 

[Alibaba99]

Thats entirely depends on the 4wd system, which is why I said 'full time'. These systems drive all four wheels all the time mechanically, no sensors, no lag, no control system for normal driving, and some have entirely manual locking differentals too which negates the need for wheel grabbing traction control. Right now all these 4wd electric cars have very basic 4wd systems. Im not saying that one day they will make something more sophisticated but right now they are completely rubbish in comparison the best ICE systems.

Tesla dont have best in class 4wd systems, sorry for bursting your bubble.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqeRBcJ1fzs

Try driving a permanent 4wd drive system on the road with all the diffs locked, you will struggle to make it round the first corner as the system winds itself up as it won't allow the wheels to rotate at different speeds.

 

[mikeh501]

Try driving a permanent 4wd drive system on the road with all the diffs locked, you will struggle to make it round the first corner as the system winds itself up as it won't allow the wheels to rotate at different speeds.

Well that would be pretty stupid eh. That’s why you can lock them as I said. This isn’t new technology lol.

there again given most EV owners can’t cope with more than one pedal maybe they should dumb it down lol

 

[Demon]

Simply no. I am a driving enthusiast, so the EV appliance will never sway me over.

Forgot about he one pedal, strikes me like the old mac mouse with one button

Don’t get me wrong, having an E46 M3 alongside our family car allows me that ‘fix’ but the M3 makes no sense on every other level.. I’m as much of a driving enthusiast as anyone else (still have a slow manual car just for the experience) but even I can see and experience that normal cars with normal use cases are better suited to EV now and so the change to EV from ICE is well underway on its own merits.

 

[Jonnycoupe]

Weird thread of QWERTY soldier. Still enjoying the “inconvenience” of commuting for 8months without ever having to stop en-route, on the way home or the night before for forecourt energy…

Stopping on holidays… it’s about the journey, not just destination.

 

[Jonnycoupe]

might be true for tesla M3, although afaik they removed heavy regen option because the car slipped in the ICE (ie. no finessing), kona is renown for wheel spin,
i3 also updated to KERS system on ev & petrol cars with mcu's located at the hubs to quickly monitor & react to slip - so for me jury is out on exemplary torque control on ev's.
Does tesla use a bosch system, or home brew.

what’s that got to do with anything. RWD will always be a game when high regen. ENiro has plastic tyres for that efficiency story that people comedically thought would carry over to the larger proper EVs.

lack of tread block grip slip oscillation you get in combustion cars will always mean EV are gonna be easier.

 

[Deleted member 651465]

The fees kick in when you hit 100% ?

Only if the charging stations are more than 50% occupied, as far as I’m aware.

 

[regulus]

How would you guys rate the Model 3 as a family car?

Wife is expecting another baby and the current car she has barely works for our current little one, nevermind another.

Been looking at EVs and really uhming and ahring about the Model 3. Because Tesla but also as we're getting solar panels installed so free charging during day. Apart from the Leaf, I can't really see any other options out there for around the same price point. It seems to take rear facing baby seats well enough.

Anyone with a Tesla Model 3 wants to chime in and speak about the merits of it as a family car? Supermarket runs during the week, kindy drop off and trips to the gym. Maybe a bit longer drives during the weekend.

In my mind it's a weekend YOLO car made to go really fast and parked in the garage for most of the week.

 

[booyaka]

How would you guys rate the Model 3 as a family car?

Wife is expecting another baby and the current car she has barely works for our current little one, nevermind another.

Been looking at EVs and really uhming and ahring about the Model 3. Because Tesla but also as we're getting solar panels installed so free charging during day. Apart from the Leaf, I can't really see any other options out there for around the same price point. It seems to take rear facing baby seats well enough.

Anyone with a Tesla Model 3 wants to chime in and speak about the merits of it as a family car? Supermarket runs during the week, kindy drop off and trips to the gym. Maybe a bit longer drives during the weekend.

In my mind it's a weekend YOLO car made to go really fast and parked in the garage for most of the week.

2 years I've had mine.

Family car - 100% - I use mine for client visits for my work, then gym, golf course etc - Then general Dad taxi stuff, swimming, dancing etc etc. Asda shopping on a Sunday etc.

Family days out - tons of room, 10 year old and a 6ft 14 year old in the back - loads of space, no complaints. SR+ so "smallest" ranged one. But plenty of 300 mile round trips etc with no issues. Would be stopping for the toilet/coffee anyway.

Week away to Fort William, day run to Campbelltown and back which was around 340 miles. Hardly ever used Superchargers (a few times when passing them) - mainly just local public charging and home charger. Zero issues with either.

Couple of small issues with the car which was dealt with quickly and professionally by Tesla.

No servicing, never seen a petrol station for 2 years now, nothing to fault. Would 100% buy another one tomorrow.

 

[thewanted]

We found it to be a pretty bad choice for a newborn. You had to be really careful putting the big pram in the boot because of the small aperture, and whomever sits behind the driver to look after the baby in the back cannot put their feet under the driver’s seat. There is quite literally zero space under the driver’s seat so my partner had to sit with her knees to the side which was very uncomfortable.

 

[mikeh501]

2 x kids = full size estate or SUV. Thank me later.

 

[jpaul]

what’s that got to do with anything.

dispells the myth's/strawman on ev superior traction control electronics - keep up.

e: bmw traction system was called ARB not KERS as i mis-quoted

german bmw site had a better explanation of this ARB system introduced on i3s and on 128ti - why do they re-use acronyms
a faster, preemptive, DSC - makes much more sense - english sites have a load of waffle.

 

[Jonnycoupe]

dispells the myth's/strawman on ev superior traction control electronics - keep up.

Well the physics tell you why’s it better and everything else is down to the OEM calibration rather than the hardware vender. Which is why a p100d can launch like it does even on 265s.

No need for that tone, quite literally you’re the one who needs to keep up. A bit of bosh sentence traction control wouldn’t go a miss either.

 

[regulus]

We found it to be a pretty bad choice for a newborn. You had to be really careful putting the big pram in the boot because of the small aperture, and whomever sits behind the driver to look after the baby in the back cannot put their feet under the driver’s seat. There is quite literally zero space under the driver’s seat so my partner had to sit with her knees to the side which was very uncomfortable.

I see.

Generally we didn't have anyone sitting at the back when our little one was still <12 months. Occasionally if she kicked off but as a norm we didn't.

Does it get better once they're out of rear facing seats?

 

[regulus]

2 years I've had mine.

Family car - 100% - I use mine for client visits for my work, then gym, golf course etc - Then general Dad taxi stuff, swimming, dancing etc etc. Asda shopping on a Sunday etc.

Family days out - tons of room, 10 year old and a 6ft 14 year old in the back - loads of space, no complaints. SR+ so "smallest" ranged one. But plenty of 300 mile round trips etc with no issues. Would be stopping for the toilet/coffee anyway.

Week away to Fort William, day run to Campbelltown and back which was around 340 miles. Hardly ever used Superchargers (a few times when passing them) - mainly just local public charging and home charger. Zero issues with either.

Couple of small issues with the car which was dealt with quickly and professionally by Tesla.

No servicing, never seen a petrol station for 2 years now, nothing to fault. Would 100% buy another one tomorrow.

That's a pretty positive report. I asked elsewhere on the internet and was flamed hairless for thinking it could ever be a family car.

Cheers for the review

 

[booyaka]

That's a pretty positive report. I asked elsewhere on the internet and was flamed hairless for thinking it could ever be a family car.

Cheers for the review

If it's not a "family" car - what is it? Don't get that at all.

Wife has a mini cooper, I have M3, no issues, tons of space, can't comment on baby seats etc but I managed fine with baby seats/prams in a 2 door merc coupe!