This is why people are losing respect for the police...

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sg0 said:
You're the one getting emotional! If you can't handle other people's opinions then I think forums are not for you.

I reckon if you told a copper 30 years ago on how you deal with a 10 year old girl with garden shears is by shooting twice with anything they would p**s their pants.
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A UK police officer from 30 years ago would have little to no frame of reference for what a taser was and what it's capabilities were as it was only introduced in the UK in 2003

Fr0dders said:
ah so there are options then. Glad we agree.
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Yes ones that can cause more damage.

You do know that taser training for police officers has often involved officers being themselves hit with a taser discharge....


I don't know of any police training that involves officers receiving actual blows from a police issued batton, without substantial padding.

Any idea why this might be the case?.....


(That's rhetorical obviously)
 
Yes, these situations should always be attempted to be resolved peacefully. Everyone else needing emergency assistance will have to hold on and hope for the best whilst the police make time for Kumbaya.
 
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Fr0dders said:
The year is 1983. The police officer is called to a report of a disturbance at a domestic property. upon entering the house they are greeted by a parent who is concerned about the behaviour of their 10 year old child who is acting aggressively and has a pair of garden shears and is threatening to stab the parent.

What are their options ? Because the black and white view that their only option was to tase them isn't an option. tasers haven't been authorised for use by the UK police yet. What can they do ? You're being very narrow minded if you think the only way that somebody can think that it isn't a black and white choice as to whether to taser the child or not is a parody poster.
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You might want to look up the definition of the word "progress"; just because we used to do things one way, doesn't mean we need to stubbornly continue doing things that way despite there being a better alternative.

Would you rather be shot with a taser resulting in short term pain and debilitation or hit with a baton resulting in potential broken bones, head injury etc.?

That's ignoring the fact that a 10 year old isn't necessarily a "small" child; my 11 year old is almost as tall as I am, and while he wouldn't pose much threat unarmed, if he had a knife or other bladed/pointed weapon i would struggle to defend myself without taking any potentially life threatening injuries - even if I did have a weapon of my own, it would almost certainly result in far worse injuries to him than a taser could ever inflict.

It's pretty obvious from some of the responses which posters have never actually been in a fight before, and are instead basing their "experiences" on carefully choreographed Hollywood movies :cry:
 
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Freakbro said:
What would be wrong in using pepper spray in the situation being discussed?
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Both pepper spray and a taser are pain weapons, if you can handle pain you can overcome them.

Broken bones and or, blunt force trauma cannot be overcome.

That being said if you are referring to a 10 year old, then obviously you would simply grab them with hands, you would not use a taser or a baton.

If its an adult man, you would baton them to the head.
 
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Haggisman said:
Nothing.
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That's what I thought, so when Caracus, replying to the statement that there were other options, said

Caracus2k said:
Yes ones that can cause more damage.
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he was talking his usual BS.

Haggisman said:
What's wrong with using a taser in the situation being discussed?
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The answers to that could range from Nothing to It was an unreasonable and disproportionate use of force, I don't know as I don't have all the facts, but we'll find out when the adjudication panel decide.
 
Mr Jack said:
This is wrong. Tasers operate primarily by disrupting muscle function. You can't grit your way through involuntary muscle convulsion.
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I am not wrong, you are correct only in theory, in practice the path of the current is not disabling enough, the pain and the shock is the primary method.

This is why tasers are relatively safe, what you say can be achieved but you will kill a 10% of people or something.
 
I think something we're all forgetting here is the parent. It was the parent that called the police. Let's re-read the article:

www.theguardian.com

Met police officer used Taser on 10-year-old girl twice, misconduct hearing told

PC Jonathan Broadhead accused of using unreasonable force against girl who was holding garden shears
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com

"she was a safe distance away from her when officers got there, and did not want her to be shot with a Taser."
“What happened upon arrival is captured upon their body-worn footage. The front door was opened by Miss A – in my submission by that stage she was presenting as calm.”
Giving evidence on Monday, Miss A said: “I wanted the police to help me convince [her] to put down the shears and the hammer ... by talking to her.”

Remember the person that tasing the child was supposed to "save". The child's mother. At the time of tasing the child did not have the shears to the mothers throat - she was a safe distance away. What did she want the police to do ? talk to the child.

The officer tased the child because she refused to comply to him. He thought he could walk in, shout some orders, have the child immediately do as he commanded, and when they didn't, he didn't consider any other option, didn't consider what the parent had actually wanted, didn't consider the actual threat to life (because the parent was a safe distance away) and just tased the child because they didn't obey his command. Had the child had the garden sheers pressed up against the mothers throat angrily yelling "i'm gonna kill her" then maybe the use of force might have been proportionate. But this officer entered the premises, barked some orders, wasn't immediately obeyed so within 8 seconds took the decision to tase the child

That right there is the problem people have with the police right now. That bodycam footage is going to be damning as hell.
 
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jpaul said:
problem is the bodycam will never be released ... why doesn't righteous parent OK that, with appropriate blurring of faces .
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Almost certainly not within the power of the parent. The footage will be owned by the met police. It's them that would decide to release it or not (likely with suitable approvals which may or may not include the parent)
 
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noted another earlier tazer event with bystander video - parents then turn against police ... he's got asthma.
(you could have thought of that earlier, rather than filming with your stupid mobile - reminds me of the end of salvador where photo-journalist is killed as he takes his pulitzer shot)

www.lbc.co.uk

'He's a child!' Footage shows moment police Taser 14-year-old boy and put him in headlock as bystanders plead for him

This is the shocking moment police Taser a 14-year-old boy as they investigated a neighbour dispute.
www.lbc.co.uk www.lbc.co.uk
 
Is it any wonder people don't bother phoning the police when all you want is for someone neutral to talk a child down from a neurotic episode and instead get someone on a power trip? Really not doing themselves any favours.

This sort of question/statement is what happens when you don't release evidence to defend the officer's actions.
 
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Let me tell you a story. I posted about this briefly on the other thread but for some meat to the story here's what's what.

On Facebook (lol) a guy who has shaved eyebrows and looks like he's from jersey Shore took offence to me questioning his views on wiper blades. He went all deranged and threatened physical violence and then proceeded to ring my mobile number and leave a number of voicemails when there was no answer and then subsequently blocked. And yes he sounds exactly like someone from Jersey Shore too.

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It got to the point where he ended up leaving crying voicemails as to why I don't pick up the phone and that it's "ridiculous" and I must be a "coward" :cry:

He doesn't sound like he has the intelligence to actually use any other means of communication, so I don't expect to be contacted any other way other than what a doofus is capable of using, normal phone and Facebook, both of which are blocked now anyway.

Anyway, the first few voicemails stated he knew my address but didn't actually state any facts related to these claims. Still, a threat was made and as such this was reported to 101. All the evidence and voicemails were collected and stored as instructed by 101 as an officer would be in touch.

An officer never got in touch, but I did sign up to the Hampshire Police portal to view the case progress. A few days later it turns out the case is closed with no contact, no looking at the evidence, no nothing. I emailed the officer directly as I remembered the email address even though he had removed all contact details from the case after closing it. I also direct tweeted Hampshire Constabulary with the case ref asking why it was closed so I guess one of the two contacts resulted in a response stating here's a digital copy of the letter they sent (which never arrived):

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So even though the evidence is time stamped, saved and easily available, they don't care because a threshold is not met, whatever that might be. It could have been an easy case solved situation by just cautioning the guy after reviewing the evidence, it could have been done in a couple of hours, I know how this sort of thing works as I worked in police forensics for a short while. It could have been a little win for one person which results in a big restoration of faith in a system that's supposed to protect and to serve the community, but nope, anyone can threaten anyone with physical violence and harass them with zero consequences.

If by some miracle this guy does happen to know my address and turns up one day, then the consequences of his actions will be observed, because the system won't do anything about protecting those subjected to crimes it seems.
 
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