This is why people are losing respect for the police...

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Devilman said:
If we have evidence they committed serious crimes (in this country, under our laws), rather than jail them for those crimes, you propose deporting them back to their home country?
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Yep, either now or when they have served their sentence.

Devilman said:
Why would you even consider such a thing when their "home country" may very well not have the same laws, or even evidence to prosecute and jail such a predator?
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They are free to deal with them however they wish.

Devilman said:
Furthermore, the crimes were committed in this country, under this countries laws, against citizen(s) of this country.
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We're not talking about stealing a tenner. These crimes are crimes basically everywhere in the world. Rape, murder etc.

Devilman said:
So why exactly should we not try them in a court of law, against our laws and then jail them in our country, for violating our laws?
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Go for it, deport them once they have served their time. You don't have the right to stay in this country though if you have broken our laws.

Devilman said:
It seems as though you're ok with making it someone else's problem (by "sending them home", instead of jailing them) ,as long as it's not (y)our problem, is that essentially it?
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Largely, yes, I don't see why the public should foot the huge bill for jailing someone when that person isn't even from this country. As I have said, I would happily apply this to English nationals abroad.

Devilman said:
You're also trying to draw parallel's between deportation of all family members for a crime only one individual may have committed, to some notion of "punishment" the family suffers when said individual is found guilty of a crime and jailed accordinly.

Are you saying you believe the family of a convicted criminal who gets locked up are being "punished" and that it's "not fair"? or that it's remotely comparable to forced deportation of said family for the wrong-doing of 1 individual?
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I haven't at any point suggested the family should be deported. Why would they be? They haven't committed a crime.

Out of interest, what would be a valid reason to deport someone?
 
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fez said:
Yep, either now or when they have served their sentence.
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Deporting them "now"? With no trial, no court, no jailtime? really? How is that justice for the victims?

After they served their sentence, I see no issue with that.

fez said:
They are free to deal with them however they wish.
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Again, as above and previous posts, just deporting them no imprisonment is neither justice for the victims, not prevention of their crimes.

By deporting them to their "home country" (which often may not have evidence to prosecute the individual) with no punishment (jailtime) they may very-well be free to just "swan around" their "home country" like it never even happened. - Not exactly justice.

fez said:
We're not talking about stealing a tenner. These crimes are crimes basically everywhere in the world. Rape, murder etc.
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No, exactly, we're not.

We're talking abut some of the most heinous crimes people can commit.

Which is why I am so utterly stunned when people express the "just send them home" sentiment, leaving them free to commit those crimes to others, in their "home country" as-well as go unpunished for the crimes committed in this country, against this countries citizen(s).

It really does scream of "I don't care if they do it "over there" just as long as they are "not here".

It's not justice.

fez said:
Go for it, deport them once they have served their time. You don't have the right to stay in this country though if you have broken our laws.
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Yes, I agree... The issue is people advocating for "sending them home" BEFORE or in-place-of a prison sentence. You yourself above even said "either now or when they have served their sentence"

Given what I said above about their "home country" may not even having laws / evidence to prosecute, combined with the crime(s) being committed in this country, not "their home country", the "send them home now" option is simply not the correct approach and it's certainly not justice for the victim(s).

fez said:
Largely, yes, I don't see why the public should foot the huge bill for jailing someone when that person isn't even from this country. As I have said, I would happily apply this to English nationals abroad.
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The crime(s) were committed in this country, in violation of this countries laws, against citizen(s) of this country. In this country our "justice system" jails such people both as a punishment to them and a deterrent to others.

Simply sending them home is neither justice for the victim(s) not a deterrent to others, it just makes the problem ... someone else's problem

As you said, this is not stealing a tenner, these are not minor crimes...

These people need to be jailed for their crimes and if those crimes were committed here, against our citizen(s), in violation of our laws, they should serve sentence here.

fez said:
I haven't at any point suggested the family should be deported. Why would they be? They haven't committed a crime.
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Apologies, I took your support of UTT's comment below as an agreement with the whole sentiment. It was not clear (to me) that you were referring only to the individual who committed the crime(s).

UTT said:
Deport them and they're families back to Pakistan?
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fez said:
Out of interest, what would be a valid reason to deport someone?
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I do wonder the same when people suggest "send them and their whole family home" ..

Under what grounds exactly would they justify the deportation of the family, whom have committed no wrong-doing?
 
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Devilman said:
Deporting them "now"? With no trial, no court, no jailtime? really? How is that justice for the victims?

After they served their sentence, I see no issue with that.



Again, as above and previous posts, just deporting them no imprisonment is neither justice for the victims, not prevention of their crimes.

By deporting them to their "home country" (which often may not have evidence to prosecute the individual) with no punishment (jailtime) they may very-well be free to just "swan around" their "home country" like it never even happened. - Not exactly justice.



No, exactly, we're not.

We're talking abut some of the most heinous crimes people can commit.

Which is why I am so utterly stunned when people express the "just send them home" sentiment, leaving them free to commit those crimes to others, in their "home country" as-well as go unpunished for the crimes committed in this country, against this countries citizen(s).

It really does scream of "I don't care if they do it "over there" just as long as they are "not here".

It's not justice.



Yes, I agree... The issue is people advocating for "sending them home" BEFORE or in-place-of a prison sentence. You yourself above even said "either now or when they have served their sentence"

Given what I said above about their "home country" may not even having laws / evidence to prosecute, combined with the crime(s) being committed in this country, not "their home country", the "send them home now" option is simply not the correct approach and it's certainly not justice for the victim(s).



The crime(s) were committed in this country, in violation of this countries laws, against citizen(s) of this country. In this country our "justice system" jails such people both as a punishment to them and a deterrent to others.

Simply sending them home is neither justice for the victim(s) not a deterrent to others, it just makes the problem ... someone else's problem

As you said, this is not stealing a tenner, these are not minor crimes...

These people need to be jailed for their crimes and if those crimes were committed here, against our citizen(s), in violation of our laws, they should serve sentence here.



Apologies, I took your support of UTT's comment below as an agreement with the whole sentiment. It was not clear (to me) that you were referring only to the individual who committed the crime(s).





I do wonder the same when people suggest "send them and their whole family home" ..

Under what grounds exactly would they justify the deportation of the family, whom have committed no wrong-doing?
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Think you're getting your quotes mixed up there buddy!

Anyway, let's just keep seeing more and more grooming gangs being brought to justice shall we

When I say justice, what would that look like for years of sexual abuse, passed around the gang, drug and alcohol pressure, sneered at by social services and plod? 5 years for good behaviour?

We need to come down on this like a ton of bricks, deportations, sale of assets, extended sentences etc
 
UTT said:
Think you're getting your quotes mixed up there buddy!
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Yes sorry, too much BB code spam, I have corrected it now.

UTT said:
Anyway, let's just keep seeing more and more grooming gangs being brought to justice shall we
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That would be the ideal situation, surely? What would you prefer if not bringing them to justice?

UTT said:
When I say justice, what would that look like for years of sexual abuse, passed around the gang, drug and alcohol pressure, sneered at by social services and plod? 5 years for good behaviour?
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Lifetime sentences for significant offenders and / or chemical castration. The issue if they currently get "5 years for good behaviour" is that they only get 5 years for good behaviour not that "they didn't get deported after they commited the crime".

Fix the sentencing rather than deport the problem is the best solution, surely?

UTT said:
We need to come down on this like a ton of bricks, deportations, sale of assets, extended sentences etc
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I agree whole-heartedly. However, (as you said above) to just "Deport them and they're families back to Pakistan?" is not the way.
 
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not the polices fault, but you have to wonder why they bother
www.chroniclelive.co.uk

Homeless man attacker who said: 'I thought it was going to be murder' walks free

Joseph Hardy, of Newcastle, caused serious injuries to his former friend but only got a community order
www.chroniclelive.co.uk www.chroniclelive.co.uk

A thug who left a homeless man seriously injured told police who arrested him for assault: "That's music to my ears, I thought it was going to be murder".

Joseph Hardy left his former friend with fractures to his cheek and jaw, which needed surgery, and a cut to his head, which needed stapling shut.
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Check this judge out...

Hardy, who has 54 previous convictions, was sentenced to a 12 month community order. Recorder Brian Whitehead said he had served the equivalent of an eight-month sentence on a tagged curfew. The judge said the victim's extensive facial injuries were "indirect consequences" of the punch as they were said to have been caused by the fall resulting from the punch.
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The judges are literally on the criminals side.

Also tagged curfew the equivalent of an 8month sentence? what suspended? another slap on the wrist
 
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arknor said:
Check this judge out...


The judges are literally on the criminals side.
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Yeah, 54 previous convictions is ridiculous. There's gotta be some balance between the "three strikes and you're out" thing tried in some US states and allowing these crackhead types to run up dozens of convictions with just a slap on the wrist each time.

Not only are we not building enough housing or investing properly in basic infrastructure like railways etc.. but we're not building enough prisons! A lot of crime is just down to the same small % of people - there's a youtuber in Manchester who films the crackheads in the city centre, just a few dozen of the same characters ruin the place for everyone else and cause stores to need to employ additional security staff etc..

The whole system is broken right now, we need real consequences of being caught for these people, start locking them up for a bit longer and start banning them from town centres if they continually cause trouble there.
 
dowie said:
The whole system is broken right now, we need real consequences of being caught for these people, start locking them up for a bit longer and start banning them from town centres if they continually cause trouble there.
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Or deport them to the Sun using SpaceX rockets.
 
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