This is why people are losing respect for the police...

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Well cast my mistakes aside and tell me how you would discipline teenagers who tell their teacher to **** off to their face and refuse to even come to school unless wearing full makeup and none approved clothing? Who put a brick through any teacher's car windscreen that dares challenge or "disrespect" them?
 
Imagine we had kept the 20,000 officers in 2010, and recruited 10,000+ more to keep up with population increase/demand though.

It's an objectively better position to be in, because there's literally more police to deal with crime, and take the strain off over-worked colleagues.

Imagine we had kept the 20,000 officers and recruited 20,000+ more to not only keep up with population increase but also provide a better service.

It's objectively an even better position to be in because there would literally be more police to deal with crime and take even more strain off overworked colleagues.
 
well, I'm just going by what he said, I was surprised myself. Maybe it's the fast-tracked he is referring to?

Maybe you're not actually going by what he said and got a bit confused yourself.

AFAIK fast track is some program where people with management experience elsewhere can get to inspector rank rapidly, I doubt it means they just need a few hours of online training!
 
Imagine we had kept the 20,000 officers and recruited 20,000+ more to not only keep up with population increase but also provide a better service.

It's objectively an even better position to be in because there would literally be more police to deal with crime and take even more strain off overworked colleagues.
Also if we hadn't got rid of thousands of back office staff under the pretence that we weren't cutting police numbers as much, when in reality we were putting more expensive and less suited staff who had been trained for something completely different (police) to do the jobs (badly) that used to be done by staff who were paid less but did it better, not because the police officers were incapable, but because that was pretty much all they did so they knew all about their specific niche role.
 
crime stats reduction article

This landmark recruitment drive is a core part of this government’s commitment to drive down crime. Progress is being made, with crime falling in England and Wales by 50% since 2010, excluding fraud and computer misuse. Since March 2020 theft has reduced by 20%, homicides and knife crime by 8% and domestic burglary by 30%.
 
crime stats reduction article


Crime might have fallen (doubtful) but the police are doing far more than ever before.

They are basically mental health workers and crime fighters. You only have to watch something like this:


To realise what they are expected to deal with now.
 
Well cast my mistakes aside and tell me how you would discipline teenagers who tell their teacher to **** off to their face and refuse to even come to school unless wearing full makeup and none approved clothing? Who put a brick through any teacher's car windscreen that dares challenge or "disrespect" them?


Here is a serious reply, although I doubt it is wroth the effort given the audience.

The first thing to note is that respect is earned, it can never be forced with threats. Leading with empathy is critical and will go a long way to earning respect.
The other crucial aspect is to realise that most children with behavioural problems do not misbehave on purpose nor to gain anything personally; they are not trying to manipulate, control, hurt, but fundamentally have cognitive development issues. It is better to think of them as having an illness that neats treatment, so the idea of using fear of consequences and punishments is little better than trying to cure prostate cancer with 50 lashes from a belt. It is inhumane and entirely ineffective.

The human brain is the most complex object in the universe. The development from a babies' primitive cognitive functionality into an adult brain is the most complex organisational process in the universe and it takes 30 years at least to achieve. Along the way abnormalities and different rates in development of various functional aspects are to be expected. The complexity of human social interactions, development of Theory of Mind, communication skills (both explicit and implicit like body language), etc. are massively misunderstood. These kinds of things make playing chess at a Masters level appear incredibly simple.
As an example, at some stage in development children realise they can lie, but at that point they don't even have the concept that adults would be able to perceive that lie because their ToM is so primitive.

Behavioural problems often arise from dysfunctional aspects of a child's ability to function in our complex social environment. Often they have certain expectations of events/outcomes but it is difficult for them to accept that their expectations cannot always be met. In a normal functional child, other cognitive processes kick in to control the disappointment, but in some children irrational responses occur because of defective cognitive skills that have not fully developed yet. The anger comes from primitive behavioural areas of the old cortex, so called fight or flight responses . At this time, it is utterly counter productive to further elevate this response with threats.


Rather, the solution is to have suitable class room environments with class sizes that are not too big, properly trained teaches that understand child development issues with professional training in disruptive child behaviour. Teachers need to be engaged and curricula can't be some cookie cutter approach using rote learning for all pupils, but needs much finer granularity and personalised to each pupil. Extra helpers need to be available. Specific advice for each child is best, so children with behavioural problems should be tested to understand their complete profile and individual steps taken.

As an example, my son has High Potential (certified alter a few months of testing, possibly combined with something we haven't diagnosed yet), shoving him in a class of average students was very detrimental. The solution was simple, give him class work from 1-2 years above his age so he actually finds the work difficult rather than a complete waste of time. When he finishes the work from 2 grades above his age within 30-60 minutes of the class he is free to play quietly at the back of the class room because he has already achieved far more academically then everyone else on the class room. Forcing him to sit quietly on a chair when he is bored to tears was obviously counter productive. The teacher shouting at him was fired and replaced with someone much more understanding of how to manage children.


Specific approaches to dealing with bad behaviour have to start with creating an empathic relation with the child to understand the issues from their perspective. Problems can then be worked through by collaboration problem solving, negotiations, and making sure both parties concerns are understood. All communication requires the utmost respect and a calm voice to the child, even if they are swearing and kicking. The ultimate goal when dealing with bad behaviour is not try and force your immediate goal, with whatever threats and consequences, but to help the child learn how to resolve these situations themselves. You need to train the dysfunctional aspects so their brain can better develop. Give a man a fish vs teaching a man how to fish.
 
I think a lot of the problems with misbehaving kids is down to bad parenting.

Some of these parents don't enforce a structure of respect at home. So if either a parent isn't at home much or the parent is more the kids friend then some kids won't respect them.

Acting the fool in class is bringing shame on the family. Sadly some kids and parents have no concept of shame.

I think the answer is a carrot and stick approach to potentially both the kids and parents.
 
I think a lot of the problems with misbehaving kids is down to bad parenting.


Some of these parents don't enforce a structure of respect at home. So if either a parent isn't at home much or the parent is more the kids friend then some kids won't respect them.

Acting the fool in class is bringing shame on the family. Sadly some kids and parents have no concept of shame.

I think the answer is a carrot and stick approach to potentially both the kids and parents.


Your post is so absolutely and ridiculously wrong it reads like a joke, except you seem to be serious. :(
 
Your post is so absolutely and ridiculously wrong it reads like a joke, except you seem to be serious. :(

Pot, kettle black etc.

So what is causing the explosion of violence towards teachers over the past 10 years do you think, where children now no longer fear the consequences of attacking a teacher?








 
Pot, kettle black etc.

So what is causing the explosion of violence towards teachers over the past 10 years do you think, where children now no longer fear the consequences of attacking a teacher?


And none of that has anything to do with what i said. No one claimed there wasn't violence towards teachers. The discussion was on causes and solutions.
 
The things you posted in your post are being done now, and we're seeing the consequences.

No, that is just the point. None of those things are really being done. Teachers are underpaid, under trained, so not have sufficient additional staff, are teaching classes that are too big, are using archaic teaching methods that provably don't work for many children. None of this is being done, and this is is really the crux of the issue leading to all the newspaper headlines above. This is a great travesty, and amounts to nothing more than inhumane child abuse in many cases.




What in my post didn't you agree with?


Absolutely all of it because it was complete nonsense. The behavioral problems have absolutely nothing to do with the parents in almost all cases. It is almost always related to cognitive development issues where the traditional teaching methods and environment combined with horrific practicing such as installing fear of consequences.


Do you blame the parents of a child suffering from leukemia ? If not, why do you want to blame the parents for other illnesses related to the most complex organ in the body?
 
No, that is just the point. None of those things are really being done. Teachers are underpaid, under trained, so not have sufficient additional staff, are teaching classes that are too big, are using archaic teaching methods that provably don't work for many children. None of this is being done, and this is is really the crux of the issue leading to all the newspaper headlines above. This is a great travesty, and amounts to nothing more than inhumane child abuse in many cases.

Absolutely all of it because it was complete nonsense. The behavioral problems have absolutely nothing to do with the parents in almost all cases. It is almost always related to cognitive development issues where the traditional teaching methods and environment combined with horrific practicing such as installing fear of consequences.

Do you blame the parents of a child suffering from leukemia ? If not, why do you want to blame the parents for other illnesses related to the most complex organ in the body.

I came through the special school system. I can tell the difference between someone who has a health condition to someone who is acting the fool.

I think you're over medicalizing normal behaviour. Nobody grows up knowing what is acceptable moral behaviour in society. It is entirely normal for kids to rebel against the rules.

There was never this level of general disrespect from kids when I was a kid. There were bad apples. But they knew they were being bad. These days I don't think the bad kids know they are doing something bad. There isn't even self preservation going on.

I think some of the behaviour might be coming from the constant tests they do in schools these days and the pressure to do well academically. If a kid isn't academic then his overall interest in school will be low. Bring back trade skills so those kids can feel a sense of achievement.
 
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