This is why people are losing respect for the police...

Soldato
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This thread is falling straight into the hands of the Tories latest blame game.


Police chiefs have suggested the home secretary is interfering with their operational independence by demanding forces pursue all reasonable crime leads at a time when their resources are being outstripped by a rise in offences.

The National Police Chiefs’ Council (NPCC) raised serious doubts about an initiative Suella Braverman used to launch the government’s crime week with insistence that there was “no such thing as minor crime”.

Braverman instructed forces to follow all evidence such as footage from CCTV, doorbells and dashcams, as well as phone data, to find a suspect or stolen property.

The NPCC responded to the plan in an open letter to Braverman, which pointedly began: “For decades, police forces have had a duty to pursue all reasonable leads of an alleged crime.”

On Monday, Braverman said forces had the resources to pursue all reasonable leads, and pointed to the government’s restoration of 20,000 officers that were cut between 2010 and 2018.

However, the letter by the NPCC chair, chief constable Gavin Stephens, suggested her plan was unrealistic given the squeeze on police funding at a time of rising crime.

“To see trust in police return to where it used to be, an effectively staffed and properly funded police service is essential,” the letter said.

Stephens said that 21 of the 43 forces in England and Wales “still have less officers than in 2010”. He added: “It is therefore right that police chiefs have operational independence and are responsible for making difficult decisions around how best to respond to the breadth of priorities of local communities.”
 
Commissario
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I still say that if the Police are expected to investigate every whif of a drug offence as Braverman wants, then they should raid the HOP given that the parliamentary response to sniffer dogs alerting all over the place was apparently to ban the drug dogs.

I suspect we would find quite a lot of MP's and their aides getting arrested for possession of class A drugs.
 
Caporegime
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I still say that if the Police are expected to investigate every whif of a drug offence as Braverman wants, then they should raid the HOP given that the parliamentary response to sniffer dogs alerting all over the place was apparently to ban the drug dogs.

I suspect we would find quite a lot of MP's and their aides getting arrested for possession of class A drugs.

If I was a senior officer I'd be in there in a shot.
Naaah, probs not, like this lot I'd be looking out for my future career.
 
Soldato
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I don't think the police have the numbers these days to make all the arrests Braverman wants.

Theresa May was really the hatchet woman of the Tories as the home secretary.

She cut 20,000+ police, and during the same period she cut 5200+ border immigration officials.

I don't think those numbers have recovered since. This is why we have many of the current headlines today.
 
Commissario
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I don't think the police have the numbers these days to make all the arrests Braverman wants.

Theresa May was really the hatchet woman of the Tories as the home secretary.

She cut 20,000+ police, and during the same period she cut 5200+ border immigration officials.

I don't think those numbers have recovered since. This is why we have many of the current headlines today.
Yup

IIRC they cut or didn't replace something like 20k officers and I believe that was in addition to all the "support" staff cuts that she reassured everyone was excess and fat and it was fine as she wasn't cutting "front line" officer numbers (directly), meaning that the real terms loss in police numbers was far higher as you ended up with "front line" officers with full police training but no specialist training doing jobs that were done by support staff who hadn't had tens of thousands of pounds of training in things like arrest procedures and the law but had been trained and experienced at using various systems and paid far less.

I think Braverman tried to boast they'd hired 23k new police the other day and got shot down by the reporter/interviewer who correctly pointed out that that was only 3k up on when the tories came into power (but I suspect still doesn't do anything like cover the numbers now spending more time doing support staff work, or the number needed to cover the natural increase needed for the increase in the population over 13 years).

The border force thing was especially stupid given she was still cutting their numbers after the brexit vote at a time when Holland and the rest of Europe were actively increasing their numbers to deal with the easily foreseen extra workload heading their way.
 
Man of Honour
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This thread is full of us complaining about the police, and that includes me. But we should also be grateful for officers such as this man who risked his life to help a member of the public, and lost it.

 
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Caporegime
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This thread is full of us complaining about the police, and that includes me. But we should also be grateful for officers such as this man who risked his life to help a member of the public, and lost it.


He's made some fundamental errors there. A single phonecall would have had the line shut down immediately.
 
Man of Honour
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Yup

IIRC they cut or didn't replace something like 20k officers and I believe that was in addition to all the "support" staff cuts that she reassured everyone was excess and fat and it was fine as she wasn't cutting "front line" officer numbers (directly), meaning that the real terms loss in police numbers was far higher as you ended up with "front line" officers with full police training but no specialist training doing jobs that were done by support staff who hadn't had tens of thousands of pounds of training in things like arrest procedures and the law but had been trained and experienced at using various systems and paid far less.

I think Braverman tried to boast they'd hired 23k new police the other day and got shot down by the reporter/interviewer who correctly pointed out that that was only 3k up on when the tories came into power (but I suspect still doesn't do anything like cover the numbers now spending more time doing support staff work, or the number needed to cover the natural increase needed for the increase in the population over 13 years).

The border force thing was especially stupid given she was still cutting their numbers after the brexit vote at a time when Holland and the rest of Europe were actively increasing their numbers to deal with the easily foreseen extra workload heading their way.
There are some important points here. The fact that Police Officers do a lot of things that Police Staff used to do hides the fact we're not in the same place as we were in 2010 despite the whole Police Uplift programme that Boris was championing. Crime is also more complicated and time-intensive to investigate than it once was. Someone needs to review CCTV and Mobile Phone dumps, and that can take a lot of time - or more accurately, it just doesn't happen unless it's a serious offence. A lot of new officers are good people but young in age and experience, this is only something time can cure and their experience is often limited to common, volume crime, so initial attendance at serious offences often leads to blank faces.

Numbers only tell a very small part of the story when it comes to capability.
 
Man of Honour
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No. They had a call that a man was on the tracks. It should have been made at that point before he entered.
Ah, apologies, I didn't realise you knew all the details of the initial call.

It is worth noting that the initial press release says:
Police were deployed to a residential area in Balderton over concerns for a man’s safety just before 7pm on Thursday 24 August.
Which may have been away from any railway on initial attendence.
 
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Man of Honour
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The rail track runs through the middle of the residential area there.
And the initial call may have been in a house and escalated to the railway. The point that the railway stop call could and should have been put in from the initial call is based on a load of uninformed assumptions.
 
Associate
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And the initial call may have been in a house and escalated to the railway. The point that the railway stop call could and should have been put in from the initial call is based on a load of uninformed assumptions.
User has to be right always, common sense does not apply. Context does not apply.
Proceed with caution.
 
Caporegime
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And the initial call may have been in a house and escalated to the railway. The point that the railway stop call could and should have been put in from the initial call is based on a load of uninformed assumptions.

It's not a question of could. There's nothing stopping it being put in. The risk was not managed correctly and an officer is dead as a result. Its that simple.
 
Man of Honour
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It's not a question of could. There's nothing stopping it being put in. The risk was not managed correctly and an officer is dead as a result. Its that simple.
Policing is never "that simple". But sure, you go on believing what you want and make loads of uninformed comments with all the confidence of someone in the first peak of the Dunning-Kruger curve - let's not break a habit.
 
Caporegime
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Policing is never "that simple". But sure, you go on believing what you want and make loads of uninformed comments with all the confidence of someone in the first peak of the Dunning-Kruger curve - let's not break a habit.

Apologies that logic can't seemingly be applied to policing. I suppose the same article that you quoted where a senior officer is saying they will analyse the circumstances and learn from this is them just talking rubbish then?

Curious how you've determined I'm uninformed? Or is that an uninformed assumption on your behalf?
 
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