Todays London Stabbing/Shooting

[Chris Wilson]

Yep, definitely the BBC's fault

Anyway, now that two white kids have been murdered things will change.

When drug dealers bump each other off I lose no sleep, they are, in effect, doing a public service for free. When they murder those with no affiliations to their culture or criminality things naturally change in people's minds. I recall two white tourists being murdered on the beach in a Thailand resort, the girl raped by two men before they killed her and her boyfriend, as another watched. The authorities went all out to catch and very publicly try the offenders, as it affected tourism, despite the murder rate amongst the "people of colour" being frightening and with little done until it was financially compelling to be seen to act. These situations show how cheaply many of our immigrant population and their progeny hold life, and how these imports have already changed our culture and crime rates for the very worst. When people arrive from lands where murder and rape are commonplace it is hardly surprising to find they change our own crime statistics.

 

[StriderX]

When drug dealers bump each other off I lose no sleep, they are, in effect, doing a public service for free. When they murder those with no affiliations to their culture or criminality things naturally change in people's minds. I recall two white tourists being murdered on the beach in a Thailand resort, the girl raped by two men before they killed her and her boyfriend, as another watched. The authorities went all out to catch and very publicly try the offenders, as it affected tourism, despite the murder rate amongst the "people of colour" being frightening and with little done until it was financially compelling to be seen to act. These situations show how cheaply many of our immigrant population and their progeny hold life, and how these imports have already changed our culture and crime rates for the very worst. When people arrive from lands where murder and rape are commonplace it is hardly surprising to find they change our own crime statistics.

Eh no, the people who hold life to be cheap have nothing valuable to save in the first place.

Again attributing a class/stratum/wealth problem to ethnicity/race/culture issues.

You don’t see people from Kensington murdering people do you? Compare violent crime between the top household areas to the bottom and it’s rather obvious.

https://www.civitas.org.uk/content/files/povertyandcrime.pdf

When crime and poverty are discussed, the typical debate is about whether – and how much – poverty makes someone crime-prone. This overshadows discussions about the law-abiding majority of the poor, and whether they are more likely to be the victims. Using extensive survey and crime data, this paper shows that in fact the poor are by far the most likely to be affected by crime. One of the worst aspects of being poor in modern Britain is the far greater likelihood of living near criminals and being their victim – and the fear this produces.
While all law-abiding people would benefit from lower crime, it is those on lower incomes and those who live in deprived areas who would benefit most. Compared to households on incomes above £50,000, those on incomes below £10,000 are:

• Considerably more likely to be attacked by someone they know and far more likely to be attacked by a stranger;

• Twice as likely to suffer violence with injury;

• Twice as likely to be burgled;

• Three times as likely to be robbed and mugged;

• Three times as likely to suffer rape or attempted rape;

• Six times as likely to be a victim of domestic violence.

Fear of crime also plagues the lives of the poor in a way that is unrecognisable to the affluent. The poor are more than twice as likely to fear burglary and rape – and three times as likely to fear attacks, robbery and car crime. This fear is justified, as there are three and a half times as many criminals living in the 20% most deprived areas as in the 20% least deprived areas.
In addition to the fear and reality of much higher crime, the poor also suffer:

• Significant barriers to social mobility: those who need a car or bicycle to get to work are more likely to see their means of transport stolen and damaged. The greatest disparity between poor and rich in what crime they fear is in the fear of the poor of their car being stolen. This is four times as high among the poor as it is among the most affluent;

• Greater insurance premiums: costs that they are least equipped to afford;

• The cost of replacing goods: despite their low incomes;

• Higher shop prices: an inevitable result of the cost of lost stock, the higher costs of hiring people to work in high crime areas, the additional security costs, the higher insurance premiums paid by shops and the costs of using shop floor space differently;

• Social breakdown as people withdraw from their communities and fear to go outside.

Is there an attributing factor from certain ethnic groups, of course, but how much if it is actually cultural vs economic? Not saying you can totally discount the former, but treating it as the only issue is ****** and unhelpful.

 

[MookJong]

Eh no, the people who hold life to be cheap have nothing valuable to save in the first place.

Again attributing a class/stratum/wealth problem to ethnicity/race/culture issues.

Yep culture is the problem, we are too afraid to stand up for our own and too happy to pander to cultures that until recently were alien to the UK.

 

[Chris Wilson]

Eh no, the people who hold life to be cheap have nothing valuable to save in the first place.

Again attributing a class/stratum/wealth problem to ethnicity/race/culture issues.

You don’t see people from Kensington murdering people do you? Compare violent crime between the top household areas to the bottom and it’s rather obvious.

https://www.civitas.org.uk/content/files/povertyandcrime.pdf



Is there an attributing factor from certain ethnic groups, of course, but how much if it is actually cultural vs economic? Not saying you can totally discount the former, but treating it as the only issue is ****** and unhelpful.

Most of the knife crime is committed by young black people, so either it's not mainly economic, but mainly cultural or ethnic, or the poor black people have taken over large areas of London and the home counties replacing poor whites. But the poor whites haven't been euthanased, so they must be somewhere even if you assume a take over, yet they are sparsely represented in the statistics...

 

[StriderX]

Most of the knife crime is committed by young black people, so either it's not mainly economic, but mainly cultural or ethnic, or the poor black people have taken over large areas of London and the home counties replacing poor whites. But the poor whites haven't been euthanased, so they must be somewhere even if you assume a take over, yet they are sparsely represented in the statistics...

I see plenty of them, don’t really know if they carry knives, but certainly avoid them all the same as the risk of theft and violence is still too high.

I certainly don’t feel that way when walking down oxford street.

Knife crime may be heavily present in black on black offences for various reasons, their economic background is still important. Uplifting people would reduce crime everywhere for everyone, mostly benefiting the poorest. While we need a strategy for the former, it really won’t matter unless the latter is dealt with.

 

[VincentHanna]

I see plenty of them, don’t really know if they carry knives, but certainly avoid them all the same as the risk of theft and violence is still too high.

I certainly don’t feel that way when walking down oxford street.

I'm not sure what you are saying StriderX

You avoid black people? White people? poor people?

 

[StriderX]

I'm not sure what you are saying StriderX

You avoid black people? White people? poor people?

I avoid my neighbors as much as possible, they are poor, and largely white (not that it matters). Area is a known cesspit. If I lived in some groty brummie (for example) hole, It’d be the same regardless.

 

[Chris Wilson]

Perhaps he operates life solely remotely, via a keyboard, and hasn't left his gaff in years?

 

[Eurofighter]

There were black people and knives before this government but we didn't have as much knife crime. Austerity is the main thing that has changed.

Youth centres, more cops and money given to teenagers at college were good policies.

 

[Chris Wilson]

I avoid my neighbors as much as possible, they are poor, and largely white. Area is a known cesspit.

If you hadn't such objections to acquired wealth you could perhaps save and move? You would then be a plastic Socialist, but there are plenty around <LOL>

 

[StriderX]

Perhaps he operates life solely remotely, via a keyboard, and hasn't left his gaff in years?

Well when there’s little to do, I don’t see much point, I’d rather quickly get a bus into town if I really wanted to be elsewhere.

Currently not actually living there atm, but still lived there long enough to see how deprivation is the main cause of violent crime/perception of it.

If you hadn't such objections to acquired wealth you could perhaps save and move? You would then be a plastic Socialist, but there are plenty around <LOL>

I have no objections to wealth itself, just how it’s acquired and recycled to the benefit of everyone including the wealthy.

 

[Chris Wilson]

There were black people and knives before this government but we didn't have as much knife crime. Austerity is the main thing that has changed.

Youth centres, more cops and money given to teenagers at college were good policies.

I don't think table tennis a glass of dandelion and burdock, and further education are high on these kids aspirations somehow. Gold jewellery, drugs, a flash car, a suitcase of cash and minimal work to acquire any of them are their goal.

 

[StriderX]

I don't think table tennis a glass of dandelion and burdock, and further education are high on these kids aspirations somehow. Gold jewellery, drugs, a flash car, a suitcase of cash and minimal work to acquire any of them are their goal.

That’s quite literally most narcissistic people’s goals? I doubt it’s unique to a small group of people.

Only need to look at government to see lack of effort granting all the above.

 

[Eurofighter]

I don't think table tennis a glass of dandelion and burdock, and further education are high on these kids aspirations somehow. Gold jewellery, drugs, a flash car, a suitcase of cash and minimal work to acquire any of them are their goal.

they are just kids, teach them more than that.

 

[Orionaut]

So..

When crime and poverty are discussed, the typical debate is about whether – and how much – poverty makes someone crime-prone. This overshadows discussions about the law-abiding majority of the poor, and whether they are more likely to be the victims. Using extensive survey and crime data, this paper shows that in fact the poor are by far the most likely to be affected by crime. One of the worst aspects of being poor in modern Britain is the far greater likelihood of living near criminals and being their victim – and the fear this produces.
While all law-abiding people would benefit from lower crime, it is those on lower incomes and those who live in deprived areas who would benefit most. Compared to households on incomes above £50,000, those on incomes below £10,000 are:

• Considerably more likely to be attacked by someone they know and far more likely to be attacked by a stranger;

• Twice as likely to suffer violence with injury;

• Twice as likely to be burgled;

• Three times as likely to be robbed and mugged;

• Three times as likely to suffer rape or attempted rape;

• Six times as likely to be a victim of domestic violence.

Fear of crime also plagues the lives of the poor in a way that is unrecognisable to the affluent. The poor are more than twice as likely to fear burglary and rape – and three times as likely to fear attacks, robbery and car crime. This fear is justified, as there are three and a half times as many criminals living in the 20% most deprived areas as in the 20% least deprived areas.
In addition to the fear and reality of much higher crime, the poor also suffer:

• Significant barriers to social mobility: those who need a car or bicycle to get to work are more likely to see their means of transport stolen and damaged. The greatest disparity between poor and rich in what crime they fear is in the fear of the poor of their car being stolen. This is four times as high among the poor as it is among the most affluent;

• Greater insurance premiums: costs that they are least equipped to afford;

• The cost of replacing goods: despite their low incomes;

• Higher shop prices: an inevitable result of the cost of lost stock, the higher costs of hiring people to work in high crime areas, the additional security costs, the higher insurance premiums paid by shops and the costs of using shop floor space differently;

• Social breakdown as people withdraw from their communities and fear to go outside.

Are you saying that Poor people behave in this way because they are poor?

Or that they are poor because they behave in this way?

 

[StriderX]

So..



Are you saying that Poor people behave in this way because they are poor?

Or that they are poor because they behave in this way?

Both, it’s not necessarily that all poor people commit crime, just that they are more likely to do so and more likely to be a target of it than higher wage areas.

The cycle breeds crime and criminals, children with poorer outcomes ripple down to their children, and their children’s children. When you don’t have much, the pressure/distress when you make a mistake, someone abuses your trust or you get stolen from is potentially permanent.

Sure there are some outliers, I don’t discount that, but they’re usually not visible, or they’ve fled the nest and with it probably any improvement in wealth (not that it’s a bad thing to escape poverty).

Just about the only thing that helped these areas in the past was the community square, but they’ve died off because bigger shops have more choice, the pub is filled with decrepit oldies and an air of unease and there’s usually a group of chavs running amok... why even bother? It’s infinitely easier nowadays to just stay inside with the glory of the internet.

 

[FoxEye]

So..

Are you saying that Poor people behave in this way because they are poor?

Or that they are poor because they behave in this way?

There's definitely an increased feeling of hopelessness these days. I'm sure many of us have noticed it (unless we're middle-class or above).

I think that is partly attributable to the growing wealth divide in this country. People see the top earners getting massive pay rises, and they see their own pay stagnating. Or they're losing their jobs; forced to be "self-employed" (a nice little scam, that).

Economists say this increasing inequality is unsustainable, but nobody seems to be listening. The wealth divide continues to grow.

That doesn't of course excuse anybody stabbing someone, for any reason.

And yes, culture (aka "black gang life culture") does have a lot to answer for.

 

[SquirrelMadness]

To the person attributing likelihood-of-committing-a-violent-crime to wealth...

Poverty does not cause a person to be more likely to commit a violent offence,
But violent behavior and poverty can stem from the same genetic/environmental basis as one another.

It's correlation not causation.

That's why there are poor areas with high crime rates and rich areas with no violent crime.

 

[krooton]

Genetic you say...?

 

[Orionaut]

Genetic you say...?

I dont think that the idea that certain types of criminal behaviour might have a genetic component is an inherently unreasonable one.

There is plenty of evidence that temperament and behaviour have a strong genetic component. Otherwise there wouldn't be any such thing as "Domestic Animals".

The idea that Humans are somehow special and not affected by this has to be logically unsustainable!