Todays London Stabbing/Shooting

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Yes you can, you just don’t want to as you either dislike the people it affects, or don’t want to pay for it.

Perhaps you do, but your language doesn’t make me assume much else.

GBH illegal. Murder is illegal. Carrying a knife in public without a legitimate reason is illegal. Pray tell what legislation could be brought in to solve the societal issue of young lads wanting to be in gangs and stab each other?
 
Soldato
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GBH illegal. Murder is illegal. Carrying a knife in public without a legitimate reason is illegal. Pray tell what legislation could be brought in to solve the societal issue of young lads wanting to be in gangs and stab each other?

Its perfectly legal to carry a non fixed / locking knife in public if the blade is < 3" long. You need no good reason either.
 
Caporegime
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GBH illegal. Murder is illegal. Carrying a knife in public without a legitimate reason is illegal. Pray tell what legislation could be brought in to solve the societal issue of young lads wanting to be in gangs and stab each other?

Its not about what’s legal it’s about helping families/kids not descend into desperation or short termism. You can legislate for that, but a good chunk of the country would rather see their neighbors house burn than pay firefighters to put it out.

They certainty don’t seem to want to pay for police, that’s for sure.
 
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Its not about what’s legal it’s about helping families/kids not descend into desperation or short termism. You can legislate for that, but a good chunk of the country would rather see the more neighbors house burn than pay firefighters to put it out.

So how would you help families not descend into desperation?

And that's also a really spiteful view of the world you have that people in general don't want boys getting into drugs, gangs, crime etc. Everybody suffers when they do.
 
Caporegime
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So how would you help families not descend into desperation?

And that's also a really spiteful view of the world you have that people in general don't want boys getting into drugs, gangs, crime etc. Everybody suffers when they do.

No it’s not simply a ‘view’, it’s literally how British people are, all talk and then when it comes to election time - ‘how much bribery shall I listen to today to reduce my taxes, with no thought into how it actually affects me’.

It’s no wonder that Theresa May just said that knife crime has nothing to do with reduced police numbers, the cheek.

Until this country votes to increase taxes to pay for solid service, I will continue to hold this reality driven view.

Every time something happens it’s short termist tripe (authoritarianist tripe at that) that’s proven to be utterly ineffective for centuries. Solving the root cause via genuine non-agenda driven governance would be a start. But it’s probably too much reasonable thinking for this country.
 
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Soldato
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GBH illegal. Murder is illegal. Carrying a knife in public without a legitimate reason is illegal. Pray tell what legislation could be brought in to solve the societal issue of young lads wanting to be in gangs and stab each other?

Pillory in the town square :p

National service.
Problem solved.

The modern military won't want the dead weight of society. They often have more applications than places, so they aren't going to take some brainless scrote on a police watch list.
 
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Caporegime
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But what would YOU do?

I’m not a psychologist, police chief, sociologist and whatever else might be relevant and won’t pretend to be so.

So I can’t reliably give an answer, I’m willing to believe a society that turned against slavery, corporal punishment and what have you, did it with sound judgement.

Learning from other countries and cities, finding what works and applying it is about all I can offer as my position. As clearly what is currently in play is broken.
 
Soldato
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I was just surprised at such open racism, I'd be impressed if I wasn't disgusted. :D

So that was a "La-La-La-I'm-not-Listening" then! :D

And who said anything about Race anyway. To my mind it is more cultural.

But that doesn't mean that genetics and selective pressure might not be a significant factor.

The key to this IMO is the genetic/cultural heritage associated with living in large urban communities. Now, for sure, one can ties this to ethnic groups too. but the primary issue is urban living.

large, high population density towns and cities where people live their lives surrounded by total strangers are a very recent thing in terms of human social evolution. For most of our species time on this earth, we have evolved to live in small, semi nomadic, extended family hunter gatherer groups bound by kinship. And indeed, where any humans not a member of this group are likley to be regarded at best as competitors, at worst as mortal enemies.

Urban living is deeply unnatural for Humans and I do not think it is at all unreasonable to suppose that a fair amount of "Domestication" through selective pressure imposed by laws and punishments (Particularly punishments involving execution, banishment or enslavement) has been necessary to allow modern humans to live in this deeply unnatural environment without killing each other as a matter or routine.

Now, for sure, there is going to be an ethnic origin aspect to this. but only as a by product of the cultural evolution factors.

For example, Asiatics have been living in large disciplined urban communities for a very long time and in a modern multi-national city. come very low in the statistics for random violent crime. Northern Europeans haven't been living like this for quite as long, so come somewhere in the middle of the stats. And people from central and southern Africa, who have by far the most limited cultural (And therefore genetic!) experience of living in large cities tend to top the list wherever such diaspora end up living.

Now, I dont know whether this theory is correct or not It is just something that popped into my mind when I saw pictures of the (Relatively peaceful surprisingly) Hong-Kong slums and observed that no European could live like that. We would tear each other to pieces within days!

Further investigation would be needed to either confirm or debunk it. But if course. Since even the very idea generates the inevitable "Racist" accusations, nobody will ever investigate the possibility.

So we will never know.

Which would be a shame if it turned out to be correct (Or at least a factor) since you cant begin to mitigate or solve a problem until you know exactly what the problem is.

And ignoring certain lines of scientific investigation simply because they offend peoples political ideologies is the road to ruin! It always has been!


.
 
Caporegime
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So that was a "La-La-La-I'm-not-Listening" then! :D

And who said anything about Race anyway. To my mind it is more cultural.

But that doesn't mean that genetics and selective pressure might not be a significant factor.

The key to this IMO is the genetic/cultural heritage associated with living in large urban communities. Now, for sure, one can ties this to ethnic groups too. but the primary issue is urban living.

large, high population density towns and cities where people live their lives surrounded by total strangers are a very recent thing in terms of human social evolution. For most of our species time on this earth, we have evolved to live in small, semi nomadic, extended family hunter gatherer groups bound by kinship. And indeed, where any humans not a member of this group are likley to be regarded at best as competitors, at worst as mortal enemies.

Urban living is deeply unnatural for Humans and I do not think it is at all unreasonable to suppose that a fair amount of "Domestication" through selective pressure imposed by laws and punishments (Particularly punishments involving execution, banishment or enslavement) has been necessary to allow modern humans to live in this deeply unnatural environment without killing each other as a matter or routine.

Now, for sure, there is going to be an ethnic origin aspect to this. but only as a by product of the cultural evolution factors.

For example, Asiatics have been living in large disciplined urban communities for a very long time and in a modern multi-national city. come very low in the statistics for random violent crime. Northern Europeans haven't been living like this for quite as long, so come somewhere in the middle of the stats. And people from central and southern Africa, who have by far the most limited cultural (And therefore genetic!) experience of living in large cities tend to top the list wherever such diaspora end up living.

Now, I dont know whether this theory is correct or not It is just something that popped into my mind when I saw pictures of the (Relatively peaceful surprisingly) Hong-Kong slums and observed that no European could live like that. We would tear each other to pieces within days!

Further investigation would be needed to either confirm or debunk it. But if course. Since even the very idea generates the inevitable "Racist" accusations, nobody will ever investigate the possibility.

So we will never know.

Which would be a shame if it turned out to be correct (Or at least a factor) since you cant begin to mitigate or solve a problem until you know exactly what the problem is.

And ignoring certain lines of scientific investigation simply because they offend peoples political ideologies is the road to ruin! It always has been!


.

There is nothing related to genetics in that, if you honestly believe that certain humans have been genetically adapted to urban living, then you have no understanding of how genetics work. Urban environements have not existed for long enough for the human genome to adapt to such conditions (if they even ever would).

Culture and wealth-disparity are the major contributing factors. Ever notice how there seems to be over-index of crime-related activity with white traveller communities? If white people are genetically geared towards urban living (or at least moreso than other races), why does that happen?

Isn't it funny when people are given the same opportunities in life, regardless of their ethnicity, they tend to all turn out the same? "Successful" white/black/indian/asian people tend to be of the general cultural fit of their country, there is no genetic predisposition towards violence and crime.
 
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The solutions to these problems are many and varied. Unfortunately, most of them are long-term, require a significant societal shift and lots of investment — as these things aren’t attractive in the current political landscape, nothing is likely to change.

One of the easiest and quickest things to do is decriminalisation of all drugs with state funded free heroin, only administered through clinics. This would cut off the funding to criminal smugglers and criminal gangs.

The harder part is how to incentivise the family unit since we have spent 50 years incentivising single parent families. Maybe you could start by not penalising social housing applicants if the dad is around, greater tax relief for married couples etc.

The above is more of a cultural issue that the government cannot enforce.
 
Soldato
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It’s the classic ‘Nature vs. Nurture’ argument writ large.

It’s easy to see how genetics dictate the colour of one’s skin/hair/eyes etc. It’s much harder to ascertain whether other genetic differences have any impact on behaviour, especially as behaviour is culturally driven along with a myriad of other external factors.

I think you’d be hard pressed for example to prove that Asians are predisposed to living in closer proximity than Europeans due to genetic differences. You are right though, the study of such things would likely get shut down pretty quickly once it was compared to eugenics.

One of the easiest and quickest things to do is decriminalisation of all drugs with state funded free heroin, only administered through clinics. This would cut off the funding to criminal smugglers and criminal gangs.

100%. This is something I’m a big advocate for. However, as I said above, it would require a societal shift to get the political will to enact it.

The harder part is how to incentivise the family unit since we have spent 50 years incentivising single parent families. Maybe you could start by not penalising social housing applicants if the dad is around, greater tax relief for married couples etc.

The above is more of a cultural issue that the government cannot enforce.

It is a cultural issue, but it can be steered by government if they had the inclination. It’s just that the results wouldn’t be seen within one election cycle, so they have no incentive to try.
 
Caporegime
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Sorry all these attacks just seen to blend into the noise of life, it's part and parcel of living in a big city, right?

Jodie Chesney died in Harold Hill, which is suburbia in a large town (Romford), not a city.

Yousef Makki was stabbed in Hale Barns, which is a village near Manchester..
 
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