Today's mass shooting in the US
- Thread starter Rroff
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Stats being used in Disingenuous way. Colour me surprised. TBF this a political thread being disingenuous is almost a requirement.
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Soldato
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Please explain how a president could do something? Congress passes laws, not the president. He could come up with an executive order but they are extremely limited and would likely be struck down by the first court it ended up in.
It needs both the House, Senate and president to be on the same page to pass any real meaningful laws on guns and the chances of that are exactly zero atm. 30 or 40 years ago it was possible, the NRA was not opposed to sensible gun laws then but that ship sailed long ago. Just look at the explosion in AR15 style weapons sales in the last 15 years. I think it would take a massacre of 100s of people to move the dial, 61 in Las Vegas did nothing. They are stuck with it now until something happens that shifts the public so far that the Republicans and the lobbyists won't be able to fight it.
Much as someone else who was trying to play games by defining mass shootings as being the rather rare 10+ deaths to justify why banning AR-15's was proportional these sorts of charts are rather misleading.
The actual demographics of thoose in the 'cis' colums are dissproportionally males involved in criminality so not exactly the same causal factors as the more ideologically driven mass shootings that tend to get much more news coverage.
When we look at the later category a clear pattern is now emerging of attacks launched by thoose claiming 'TQ' status like the 'non binary' Colarado Springs nightclub shooter and this more recent school shooting by a TIF...
Which on the that subject males the claimed figure of 3 'trans' shootings incorrect as NB comes under the 'umbrella'
For all the hysterical claims of things like 'stochastic terrorism' coming from the Democrats we yet again find them doing nothing to control or distance themselves from the insane cultists in their own ranks that likely are a driving factor.
'Did You Not Tweet That?': Nancy Mace Confronts Activist With Her Own Controversial Tweets
At today's House Oversight Committee hearing, Rep. Nancy Mace (R-SC) confronted Alejandra Caraballo with her tweets about the Supreme Court.Stay ConnectedFor...
youtu.be
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You do realise that nothing will shift either side in their stance right?
Much as someone else who was trying to play games by defining mass shootings as being the rather rare 10+ deaths to justify why banning AR-15's was proportional these sorts of charts are rather misleading.
The actual demographics of thoose in the 'cis' colums are dissproportionally males involved in criminality so not exactly the same causal factors as the more ideologically driven mass shootings that tend to get much more news coverage.
When we look at the later category a clear pattern is now emerging of attacks launched by thoose claiming 'TQ' status like the 'non binary' Colarado Springs nightclub shooter and this more recent school shooting by a TIF...
For all the hysterical claims of things like 'stochastic terrorism' coming from the Democrats we yet again find them doing nothing to control or distance themselves from the insane cultists in their own ranks that likely is a driving factor.
'Did You Not Tweet That?': Nancy Mace Confronts Activist With Her Own Controversial Tweets
At today's House Oversight Committee hearing, Rep. Nancy Mace (R-SC) confronted Alejandra Caraballo with her tweets about the Supreme Court.Stay ConnectedFor...
It seems that the statistics on that chart hurt your objectively incorrect world view so much, that you have been compelled to respond with absolute nonsense. Twice.
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It seems you posted a stupid infographic, that is demonstrably inaccurate, in lieu of actual verifiable information and are now flailing about because you're really bad at this.
Where does the 2826 figure come from?
Why are there only 3 deaths in the 'trans' bar when there's been more than that in the past year alone?
I don't suspect we will see any rational answers from the likes of you however.
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We get it, guns bad. We know... I'm not going to waste time answering all these what if scenarios, it's not helpful.
If you're happy with the status quo then great, but the US is not going to ban guns.
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I assume it's incidents, not victims. But I wonder what Jono would say if someone presented the same infographic but the cis column was relabeled black and the trans column to white. I'm willing bet he'd toss it aside and not give it a 2nd thought.
Soldato
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The Republicans have at least more largely stayed consistent on their view on firearms.... mostly pro second amendment.
The Democrats on the other hand seem hell bent on following a course that, whether intentionally or not, has seen gun ownership rates increase quite heavily in the US. With some previously less well armed demographics seeing some of the biggest increases.
In the past few years we have seen Democrats tacitly support if not actively cheered on mass fatal riots, unlawful and lawless 'autonomous zones' and Marxist agitators. Whilst also witnessing senior democrats push insane gender ideology and socialism
Senior Democrats have also repeatedly spread false narratives around incidents that had led to mass disorder years after the facts were established.
And what have the Democrats got to say in response with regards to the rhetoric coming from the Republicans?
Hysterically go on about a supposed 'insurrection', in one of the most heavily armed countries in the world, where almost none of the alleged belligerents brought firearms and the only person shot was one of the crowd (not unjustifiably in my mind but that's a separate matter).
Of course it should come as no surprise that some of the biggest rises have come from those either less able to defend themselves or more likely to be in the riot zones whilst the senior Democrats cheering on the mayhem are shielded in their gated communities.
More women are becoming gun owners | Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health
During 2020, amid the pandemic, civil unrest over social justice issues, and a contested election, more people bought guns—and most were women, according to recent news reports.www.hsph.harvard.edu
It's entirely rational to tell then Democrats to go do one every time they bring increased gun control to the table because the facts are that it is the Democrats and their base that have shifted the most over the past 30 years or so, and then with the biggest swing int he last decade, not the Republicans.
The trend was also well underway before the 45th president came into office so you can't claim he's the cause. In deed more the reaction would appear to be the case.
Charts: America’s Political Divide, From 1994–2017 — The New Capital Journal — New Capital Management
We all understand our country is politically divided - what does that look like from an empirical view?www.newcapitalmgmt.com
The Democrats need to address the extremism in their own ranks before any meaningful progress can be made re gun control
Yeah Elizabeth Warren and Kamala Harris those examples of extremist politicians
And I would say storming the seat of legislative power while chanting they were going to hang the vice president isn't the "hysterical" nothing you paint it as. All while Congress went about its constitutional duty to certify the handover of one elected executive to the next elected executive, although a substantial percentage of one party was doing all they could to block that handover and throw out the results of the voters in a desperate attempt to hang on to power.
Nonsense on the Republicans not shifting. As I said in another post 30 or 40 years ago there could have been real movement on guns. The Assault Weapons ban would never pass today, in fact no sensible legislation would pass today and that isn't because the Democrats have dramatically shifted their position, quite the opposite. One party has shifted its position to the extreme on this issue and its not the Democrats.
Soldato
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I don't live in the US and I'm not a teacher, so I'm not really able to give an informed answer.
I just think that makjng teachers carry guns is a bad idea. I'm always open to evidence-based proposals, but would set the bar very high on that. I didn't expect answers, because no-ine really knows- and that's an observation, not having a go at you.
I know the US will never ban guns. If Sandy Hook didn't drive change, nothing will.
Soldato
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Wow its almost like you read what I wrote.
Not the best examples to use there dude, both those tweets are perpetuating the myth that Michael Brown was murdered, he wasnt. So yes, in that example they are playing to the extremist activist crowd.Yeah Elizabeth Warren and Kamala Harris those examples of extremist politicians
One party has shifted it stance more towards the radical and it's not the republicans who hold the same values now as they did 20/30 years ago. Deomcrats views on various issues are far more extreme now than previously.
and yet you seem to be under the impression that something worse needs to happen for any legislation to change.
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What?
Soldato
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The idea of arming teachers is a joke. 74% of teachers in the US are women. So first you have to have them willing to do it. of gun owners in the US, women make up 9% of that ownership. That doesn't bode well for finding women who want to use a firearm in the school.
Then you have to train them to a level where they are competent to actually use the weapon in a time of extreme stress, this will involve hours and hours of training that will need to be constantly refreshed so they won't shoot the first person who appears at the door without thinking or even one of the kids by accident.
Then the weapons need to be locked away in the classroom so none of the kids can gain access to it but must be accessible to any teacher in that classroom in an emergency or its useless. Of course there is always the risk that a teacher in a very stressful situation with a violent student might go for that gun and shoot the student or even worse miss that student and hit other students.
The only way this might work is to have multiple fully trained people working at every school, their job just to protect it. You then have the problem that many will simply do nothing when they hear an AR15 style gun being used. They only recently had the shooting where the local police did nothing because they were scared of the AR15.
Then you have to train them to a level where they are competent to actually use the weapon in a time of extreme stress, this will involve hours and hours of training that will need to be constantly refreshed so they won't shoot the first person who appears at the door without thinking or even one of the kids by accident.
Then the weapons need to be locked away in the classroom so none of the kids can gain access to it but must be accessible to any teacher in that classroom in an emergency or its useless. Of course there is always the risk that a teacher in a very stressful situation with a violent student might go for that gun and shoot the student or even worse miss that student and hit other students.
The only way this might work is to have multiple fully trained people working at every school, their job just to protect it. You then have the problem that many will simply do nothing when they hear an AR15 style gun being used. They only recently had the shooting where the local police did nothing because they were scared of the AR15.
It's your stupid infographic....
It's labelled 'mass shooting by gender status'
Not 'mass shootings' or something like 'shooting incidents'.
It's not everyone else fault that you have posted a load of old *****.
So why don't you scurry off and try and figure out where the numbers for the garbage you posted came from and what exactly the Y axis represents?
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Caporegime
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You just made that up didn't you and added a letter to try and make an excuse for a fellow poster rubbish claims.
Soldato
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They are not extremist politicians.
Sorry you are way off the mark. Todays Republican Party isn't recognisable to that of 30 years ago. It is full of extremists like MTG, they are in control of the Republican Party now and I hope we don't see people even more extreme than her but I wouldn't bet against it.
There is always an event so horrific that it can push the public to force change.
Caporegime
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No, I did not.