Caporegime
God damn terrorists!
Today's mass shooting in the US
- Thread starter Rroff
- Start date
Caporegime
Owning a gun makes you more, not less, likely to be shot and killed.
But your reaction is part of the perverse incentives that result in mass shootings actually being good for the US's gun industry. Every mass shooting is followed by a spike in gun sales and profits.
Soldato
Can’t see how any gun control type limit would work, seems a case of nobody has guns or everybody has guns is the only viable solution.
Soldato
Statistically, yes. But there's value in being able to defend your family if the need arises. I've argued with a few Americans about why they carry guns and they say it's because they need to be able to defend yourselves. This sort of thing makes me think that they're right.
If the guns laws aren't going to change then the only solution seems to be that everyone has a gun.
Agreed on the latter. I thought that's exactly what the gun manufacturers need. More violence = more guns.
In most cases, particularly random shootings, carrying a weapon provides no defence whatsoever. Firstly, the chaos makes it difficult/impossible to know who the shooter is or if there's more than one. Secondly, when someone starts shooting, the best course of action, even when armed, is running/taking cover not shooting back Hollywood style.
Firearms are offensive weapons, their defensive value is only in the form of deterrence but a lunatic who decides to start killing randomly won't be deterred by them, as seen in Fort Hood.
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Caporegime
That value is substantially lower than the increase in risk. The idea that you can "defend your family" is largely false, while the risk of lethally escalating the situation, of an accident in the home, or of your own gun being used against you are very real.
Caporegime
Sir Hugh Maharggs: Homosexuals can't swim, they attract enemy radar, they attract sharks, they insist on being placed at "the captain's table", they get up late, they nudge people whilst they're shooting. They muck about. Imagine... the fear... of knowing you have a gay man on board a boat, when you retire at night you think to yourself "God... will I wake up and find everybody dead?" You can't run a ship like that.
Soldato
Perpertrator was barred from owning guns: gun was owned illegally
Therefore gun restriction laws don't work.
A legal gun owner confronted him and prevented further deaths
Therefore arming good people protects the population.
Broadly, these seem to be the arguments.
Therefore gun restriction laws don't work.
A legal gun owner confronted him and prevented further deaths
Therefore arming good people protects the population.
Broadly, these seem to be the arguments.
Soldato
These arguments seem to ignore the fact that very little restrictions to gun ownership allows for people to obtain guns illegally much easier. People will believe what they want to believe and there is no convincing a Texan who wears his heart in his holster.
It has gotten to the point where restrictions now will do nothing without actively removing firearms and battling the issue on multiple fronts, such as campaigns to reduce how fashionable guns are and such.
It has gotten to the point where restrictions now will do nothing without actively removing firearms and battling the issue on multiple fronts, such as campaigns to reduce how fashionable guns are and such.
Caporegime
Very easy to debunk that one: Texan gun laws are too slack, which is why illegal gun owners can get around them.
Easy to debunk that one too. The gunman was trying to escape, and the armed neighbour started a gunfight with him. Despite this, the gunman got away. This did not save any lives as far as I can see. If anything, it only resulted in more bullets zipping around, which increased the likelihood that someone else would get shot.
Load of ********.
Soldato
Chicago gun laws are very tight: More gun deaths than any other city in the US. Gun control doesn't work
No-one else got killed, and the gunman went on the run instead of looking for more victims. Denying that the armed civilian opening fire deterred the gunman is a bit of a stretch.
[devil's advocate]
http://newsthump.com/2017/11/06/tex...e-time-for-new-laws-or-debate-confirms-trump/
Newsthump summing it up pretty well as always.
So, here is a very inconvenient question. Is there any proof/statistics that shows that if the Muslim population of America was replaced with white Americans, there would be less mass shootings/terror attacks (ie that it would "make America safer)?
From what i can see, non Muslims are just as big a threat to the American people as Muslims so why is Trump so fixated on banning them and upending all sorts of constitutional rights/laws to do so?
Newsthump summing it up pretty well as always.
So, here is a very inconvenient question. Is there any proof/statistics that shows that if the Muslim population of America was replaced with white Americans, there would be less mass shootings/terror attacks (ie that it would "make America safer)?
From what i can see, non Muslims are just as big a threat to the American people as Muslims so why is Trump so fixated on banning them and upending all sorts of constitutional rights/laws to do so?
Soldato
Technically Trump is correct
But if his comment was advocating mass gun ownership he should acknowledge that this wouldn't have been an incident if gun ownership was restricted in the first place.
From what I have seen this guy had previous with domestic violence?
Soldato
Soldato
Because that is what got him into power, American's love their bogeyman to hate/fear. Now communism has died down they need a new cause to rally around.
Soldato
He needs to restrict ownership and 'amend' the 2nd Amendment full stop to really reduce violence in the US. He wont do this though.
His focus on Muslims? He believes that there is an certain Islamic ideology behind the attacks, so there is a common theme to rally behind.
Caporegime
Chicago gun laws are slightly tighter than the US average, but still not very tight. For example, they allow concealed carry, and you don't even need to register your firearm.
'The truth — and lies — about Chicago's gun laws.'
~25% of the guns used in Chicago gun crime come from just 10 local shops:
60% of illegal firearms in Chicago are brought imported from neighbouring states with even weaker gun laws.
'Where Do All The Illegal Guns In Chicago Come From?'
And remember that Chicago gun crime is directly related to Chicago gang crime, which is higher than the national average.
The gunman was in the process of fleeing the scene when he was shot at by the guy who completely failed to stop him. He wasn't in the process of killing other people. He was trying to get away.
/thumbup
Yep.
I'm pretty sure I read that too.
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Soldato
I don't think he believes it, i think it is just a convenient terror to have the people rally behind, where the media does all the work for him.
Before any restrictions work, gun culture must change. Make it less fashionable, reduce gun owners to the groups of society that are willing to jump through hoops to own while implementing these hoops through gradual restrictions.
We saw attitudes on Smoking and drinking (especially drink driving) change drastically in this country with continuous campaigns, unfortunately their gun supporting elite are too closely tied with the government for this too ever take off without the public first creating an appealing opportunity for an up and coming politician to take advantage of.
Before any restrictions work, gun culture must change. Make it less fashionable, reduce gun owners to the groups of society that are willing to jump through hoops to own while implementing these hoops through gradual restrictions.
We saw attitudes on Smoking and drinking (especially drink driving) change drastically in this country with continuous campaigns, unfortunately their gun supporting elite are too closely tied with the government for this too ever take off without the public first creating an appealing opportunity for an up and coming politician to take advantage of.