No you're not. People die and get displaced in house fires every week, what do those people get in handouts ?
Tower block fire - london
- Thread starter robfosters
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No you're not. People die and get displaced in house fires every week, what do those people get in handouts ?
Deleted member 66701
D
Deleted member 66701
They aren't being re-homed in luxury and exclusive apartments.
They aren't being given multi-million pound housing.
They get re-homed by the council if required, the same as the Grenfell residents. What do you think happens to people who lose their house to a fire in other parts of the country? That they get left to sleep on the streets?
well it isn't actually costing the government anything other than some extra money to speed up the refurbishment, they're not getting the super luxury 1.6million+ pads anyway but flats in an affordable housing block
the flats they're getting perhaps might be worth 800k or so but then again the flats in their previous tower block were circa half a million anyway simply due to the location, fact is it is an expensive area... I'd agree that in general social housing in such areas is inefficient and ought to be managed on a London wide basis
in this particular instance though it isn't even costing the local authority anything, the only people really who could object are the 8,000 residents of the City of London whose local authority has paid out the 10 million... though in reality it isn't really their council tax so much as money from all the massive banks etc.. based there so I doubt either they or the big banks are too fussed about what is essentially a charitable donation
Ahh ok that sounds more reasonable... I read a couple of articles that really made it sound like they were getting luxury homes.
Well apparently testing has shown that the cladding was combustible and around 600 other high rise buildings have used the same, or similar products. I await the manufacturers comments on this to see what testing they did on it themselves that enabled them to claim it was suitable.
I have certainly learned something from all this but I still come back to the inadequacy of the Building Regulations with regards rain screen cladding guidance.
ADB2 P12.7 simply states;
This is the paragraph that experts are saying is the key paragraph and yet there is no mention the cladding system, I suppose the key word is "any". It does refer you to Appendix A and specifically table 7 which states;
To me this paragraph is about insulation and is very unclear if its also relevant to cladding but this is what they are saying.
Note it refers to Table 6 which is very location specific, none of which is external cladding but its the material class that we are interested in here and they are as follows;
So there we are, clear as mud.
I have certainly learned something from all this but I still come back to the inadequacy of the Building Regulations with regards rain screen cladding guidance.
ADB2 P12.7 simply states;
This is the paragraph that experts are saying is the key paragraph and yet there is no mention the cladding system, I suppose the key word is "any". It does refer you to Appendix A and specifically table 7 which states;
To me this paragraph is about insulation and is very unclear if its also relevant to cladding but this is what they are saying.
Note it refers to Table 6 which is very location specific, none of which is external cladding but its the material class that we are interested in here and they are as follows;
So there we are, clear as mud.
Soldato
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DailyHeil and Daily Express?
Please don't pretend to take any moral high ground here because you'll just end up looking stupid. My post clearly had the precursor of Devils Advocate, not my own advocation. What do you think the likes of the DM will do when they discover such information?
Do we think all this "new england" style technical wood that people are affixing to their homes suffers similar issues?
ie
https://www.applehomeimprovements.com/apples-new-england-coloured-weatherboard-system/
ie
https://www.applehomeimprovements.com/apples-new-england-coloured-weatherboard-system/
Isn't the point that the cladding is dangerous because it moves the flames from a low level to a high level very quickly? I think this process was referred to as a "secondary fire" in one image I saw.
If so I don't think people living in a bungalow have much reason to be concerned
If so I don't think people living in a bungalow have much reason to be concerned
Hang on, suppose Sharron the single mum, a priority case, had been given a 1 bedroom apartment in the tower block, she then realises that actually because of the location her flat is worth about half a million and that private flats in the tower go for 1.7k a month... She decides to move in with boyfriend/move to parents/rent somewhere cheaper and illegally sublet the property - she gets the local dodgy estate agent involved who rents it out to a dozen Somalis who illegally entered the country.
You two are happy with Sharron, who broke the terms of her lease and isn't a victim of the fire, to be rehoused in the luxury block in addition to the illegal immigrants? Are you not worried that a person who already illegally sublet will just do it again once they're handed an even nicer flat?
In fact the worry here is that the illegal immigrants, for fear of reprisals, aren't actually declaring themselves safe but have disappeared - which mean we might well end up with situation where the official tenants who had stopped living there can claim to be a victim and get given a new 'luxury' flat. The other issue of course with offering some sort of amnesty and accommodation for illegal immigrants is that, well, some of them have disappeared now - if they later claim that they were living in the tower unofficially how can they prove it and what is to stop other illegal immigrants from jumping on board and claiming too?
This could actually be quite a big problem - illegal subletting in social housing is common, it is especially an issue in expensive areas of London such as this where the private sector rents are high... very tempting for someone who has a free flat worth half a million to go live with a boyfriend or family and collect some rent instead.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...ess-immigration-status-migrants-a7798051.html
“There must have been a bunch of people in that building who probably escaped on the night and probably ran away from the situation. There has been speak from other residents of a whole load of Filipinos living in there that no one has seen since it happened,” she said.
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I think the government have been slightly street wise in giving minimal value cash hand outs and offering balances by cheques, which of course means payment into a named bank account.
There should never, ever be any amnesties as far as illegal immigrants are concerned, it sets an appalling precedent in times where even the legal ones are changing the demographics of the UK in ways many think is detrimental to prosperity and harmony.
If they are forced to re-home any other tower block resident whilst remedial work is carried out the government or local authorities should use the situation to check out who is living in them and their true status. I suspect the abuse of the housing system is widespread.
There should never, ever be any amnesties as far as illegal immigrants are concerned, it sets an appalling precedent in times where even the legal ones are changing the demographics of the UK in ways many think is detrimental to prosperity and harmony.
If they are forced to re-home any other tower block resident whilst remedial work is carried out the government or local authorities should use the situation to check out who is living in them and their true status. I suspect the abuse of the housing system is widespread.
Isn't the point that the cladding is dangerous because it moves the flames from a low level to a high level very quickly? I think this process was referred to as a "secondary fire" in one image I saw.
If so I don't think people living in a bungalow have much reason to be concerned
The picture was for illustration, there are hundreds of homes with this style of cladding.
The point he was making was that in low rise domestic house's its insignificant because exit times are quicker and there are more exits to use as well. Also the product you linked to is cementitious so it would be difficult to ignite anyway.
yeah I've certainly seen stuff in London, say 5-6 story blocks the architect has tried to make look trendy, covered in wooden cladding
The stairwells and corridors were not "stuffed full of people". What gives you that idea? Nothing in the many reports suggests this. Most of the people who died did so because the initial advice to was to 'stay put' (correct advice usually, the cladding compromised this). So there wasn't a crush to get out, tragically rather the opposite.
There's bound to have been illegal sub letting in the block, that's going on in all sorts of places because of the housing crisis. Possibly some illegal immigrants too. However, there's an important distinction between illegal subletting and illegal immigration. There's plenty of people in sub let tenancies, some knowingly, some perhaps unknowingly, who are legally allowed to live in the UK. LOTS. The housing situation is so desperate in London that people are being forced into all kinds of substandard arrangements - sub-lets, whole families crammed into bedsits, beds in sheds etc. We are not talking about illegal immigrants (although of course there are some), but ordinary, hard working, legal citizens.
I don't know if the number of people escaping or attempting to escape had an impact - I was asking the question, could it have had an impact. You can't say it didn't just yet, but I would be interested if it is listed as a factor in the official report. People were apparently 'separated' from their loved ones during the evacuation, which suggests to me a chaotic and crowded situation.
Soldato
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I guarantee it was dirty, poorly maintained, full of people that weren't supposed to be there.
The kind of people that live in a tower block like that do not live tidy, by-the-rules lives. They break the rules and make a mess.
You've obviously not had much experience in life.
Chaotic yes. Crowded no. People got separated because of the flames, the thick choking smoke, the extremely poor visibility and because they were disoriented. This is very clear from the reports and interviews with the survivors, the fire brigade, the police etc. So yes, it is possible to say that there wasn't some kind of crush to get out. The reasons for people getting separated are harrowing, but it's more to do with chaos, disorientation and to be frank some people seemingly paralysed by fear (listen to the story of the guy who went back for his brother and carried a neighbour out).
Along with £thousands in charity handouts ?