Tower block fire - london

[dowie]

I know they said on the news the flats were worth 1.2 million, but that's purely based on location. If they were anywhere else in the country they would be what...70k I mean a brick is a bloody brick. Unless they have solid gold light switches and diamond encrusted window sills?

nah - the cost price is 140k... so elsewhere in the country they'd be 140k each + the price of the land + some profit for the developer

on the market I wouldn't be surprised if they could be flogged for 800k at least... I mean they've probably not got access to the cinema etc.. but they're brand new and in the same location as flats starting at 1.6million each upwards so in terms of sq ft they'd definitely be expensive

thing is the original flats in that rather naff looking old tower block were probably worth up to 500k themselves... this is just an issue of location - the deal itself is good value and it hasn't cost the govt anything other than paying a bit to speed up completion thanks to the City of London stepping in.

there is obviously a wider issue like why do we provide social housing in such expensive areas in the first place and wouldn't it be better to provide it on a London wide basis - especially inefficient is housing say Syrian refugees in places like that tower block in the first place... no real reason for them to have been put up in a flat worth over double the average uk house

 

[insideline]

According to reports these flats are in a seperate unit to the really expensive ones, do not have access to any of the stuff listed in the Daily Heil article (Spa, Swimming pool etc) and were going to be used as social housing anyway... plus the council has about 300m surplus so its literally not even coming out of any taxpayer's pockets.

Why are people having a meltdown over this ?

 

[dowie]

plus the council has about 300m surplus so its literally not even coming out of any taxpayer's pockets.

the council isn't even paying for them, they're getting donated by the City

 

[Spook187]

There's a lot of dodgy reporting on this, with obvious agenda. It's important to remember that the flats being offered for the rehousing are the "affordable" housing component of the development (most new developments have to include a certain % of affordable housing). So whilst very nice flats, they aren't the luxury flats certain sections of the media are claiming them to be. As you point out, what's considered "affordable" in London would have a very different value elsewhere. But can you really get a 1 or 2 bed flat for £70k anywhere these days?

Yes of course you can, or near enough, Living down in the south isn't all that and you pay through the nose for it.

 

[Mr.E.]

Why else would you be upset if someone gets help from a charity after losing their home to a fire?

I'm not upset in the slightest ! My point is that people lose everything by fire every week, they get a different house and probalbly the bare minimum to try and start again, not £thousands from charity.

 

[b0redj0rd]

The political grandstanding around this disaster is grim. Why do we see the 'Socialist Workers Party' placards and people wearing 'Momentum' t-shirts at marches allegedly revolving around this tower block?

 

[Cern]

So, we've had the shock at the human cost of the tragedy. We've had the outrage over the flammable cladding. We've had the protests over the poor initial government response .....

And now we're into damage limitation and misdirecting blame. So is it any surprise that we're seeing so much warped, inaccurate and frankly inflammatory reporting of "luxury flats" being given away, victims getting "excessive" charity handouts, tower blocks being overcrowded with illegal immigrants (where is the actual evidence for that?), how everything is the fault of "lefty complainers" and oh, did anyone forget to mention the immigrants? Best mention them again. Or the EU? Might as well throw some blame their way while we're at it.

Pretty hateful stuff to turn a tragedy like this into division and the politics of envy rather than tackling the real issues it raises head on. Shameful.

 

[dowie]

tower blocks being overcrowded with illegal immigrants (where is the actual evidence for that?),

If there is no evidence for that then there is nor problem for the government to solve then? Why is the Mayor of London calling for an amnesty for these apparent illegal immigrants?

 

[StriderX]

Surely if someone was away while subletting, they'd have contacted someone pretty swiftly you'd imagine and we're talking at most very low double digits/single digit illegals... Giving them amnesty isnt a big issue.

I mean bloody hell Obama gave amnesty to millions.

 

[Greebo]

Good to see the DE is sticking to the agenda that everything must be the EU's fault

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/81...ing-latest-updates-european-union-regulations

Did EU regulation mean deadly cladding was used on Grenfell Tower?
AS THERESA May promises a full public inquiry into how the Grenfell Tower went up in flames killing at least 17 people, the fire risk of the building’s cladding has come into question.

 

[dowie]

Surely if someone was away while subletting, they'd have contacted someone pretty swiftly you'd imagine and we're talking at most very low double digits/single digit illegals... Giving them amnesty isnt a big issue.

I mean bloody hell Obama gave amnesty to millions.

it isn't the amnesty that is the biggest issue per say but identifying them etc.. subletting isn't just something that happens when people are away on holiday, some people will move into a boyfriend or relative's house and let out the whole flat long term (it is supposed to be much more common in central London simply due to the huge difference in price for market rate rents) - there is an issue here in that if the sub tenants were illegal, undocumented then the person sub letting could end up with a new lease in this new block and the people who were actual victims of the fire have no proof or are afraid to come forwards anyway

 

[LOAM]

Sorry for the link and run, RIBA statement regarding the current Design for Fire Safety

https://www.architecture.com/knowle...page/riba-statement-on-design-for-fire-safety

 

[Amp34]

Do we think all this "new england" style technical wood that people are affixing to their homes suffers similar issues?

ie

https://www.applehomeimprovements.com/apples-new-england-coloured-weatherboard-system/

It's cement board, similar to the stuff used in bathrooms instead of plasterboard, so shouldn't be any mor eflammable than a masonary wall in the first place.

 

[StriderX]

it isn't the amnesty that is the biggest issue per say but identifying them etc.. subletting isn't just something that happens when people are away on holiday, some people will move into a boyfriend or relative's house and let out the whole flat long term (it is supposed to be much more common in central London simply due to the huge difference in price for market rate rents) - there is an issue here in that if the sub tenants were illegal, undocumented then the person sub letting could end up with a new lease in this new block and the people who were actual victims of the fire have no proof or are afraid to come forwards anyway

But surely the council or TMO has an idea of who was registered here (Saying that, a lot of councils are absolute dog ***** at keeping records).

 

[Greebo]

I think the government have been slightly street wise in giving minimal value cash hand outs and offering balances by cheques, which of course means payment into a named bank account.

There should never, ever be any amnesties as far as illegal immigrants are concerned, it sets an appalling precedent in times where even the legal ones are changing the demographics of the UK in ways many think is detrimental to prosperity and harmony.

If they are forced to re-home any other tower block resident whilst remedial work is carried out the government or local authorities should use the situation to check out who is living in them and their true status. I suspect the abuse of the housing system is widespread.

So you have lost everything. Your passport, driving licence, clothes, furniture, bank cards and you get given a cheque which you then need to wit five days to clear. Great

 

[Cern]

If there is no evidence for that then there is nor problem for the government to solve then? Why is the Mayor of London calling for an amnesty for these apparent illegal immigrants?

Yes of course there was bound to be subletting going on, some of it possibly to illegal immigrants. The point of the amnesty is to try to get an idea of the numbers.

But if occupation by illegal immigrants (specifically) was a widespread problem, then there would have been more reports of it from survivors, documented complaints to the authorities about it from other residents, more reports of some being caught by council checks, more illegal immigrants identified during the initial aftermath etc etc. Or did all the illegals just slink off into the night now that their cover was blown? After being burned out of everything they just slunk away. Really?

Sub-letting is something different and a major issue. But bear in mind that many many people sub-letting are UK or EU citizens and not illegals, often in employment, often without anywhere else to stay. There's a housing crisis, it's happening everywhere. So rather than demonising the sub-letters, let's address the wider housing problem, which is huge right across the country, particularly in London.

 

[Werewolf]

But can you really get a 1 or 2 bed flat for £70k anywhere these days?

You can get a 3 or 4 bedroom house for that price in some parts of the country.

 

[Chris Wilson]

Seems the owners of the tower block have a very Cavalier attitude to who is living there
and how the official owners / renters run their activities. Multiply the issues becoming
apparent here by all the similar properties in the UK and the lack of control of our borders
and lack of proper identification of those living here and the problem is probably massive.

Anyone guilty of illegally sub letting flats in the tower should be traced and brought fully to
justice. As well as bringing out all the bleeding hearts and those using any incident, however
disconnected, to trying to bring down the government, it has also opened people's eyes to
how out of control the housing market is in regard to illegal renting. As well as checking fire
risks in rented accommodation the authorities should do a full inventory of those living in them
and their rights to be here in the first place. Another can of worms is opening.

 

[StriderX]

You can get a 3 or 4 bedroom house for that price in some parts of the country.

There's a good reason for that.

 

[Amp34]

So you okay with a Fireman risking his life who might die to save someone who shouldn't be there in the first place?

We have rules and laws for things, if a sign says you don't go that way because it's dangerous, you don't ignore it and go anyway, if you go ahead and get hurt, you risk other people lives who have to come rescue you.

Not like any of this has happened before when people don't follow the rules.

That's the nature of the job. All human life is valued the same, doesn't matter if they are there legally or illegally. The fire service will and should rescue them.

It's not like the coastguard ask if the sinking ship is registered in the UK, and if it's not they decide not to save the people on it.