Tower block fire - london

[Deleted member 66701]

You two are happy with Sharron, who broke the terms of her lease and isn't a victim of the fire, to be rehoused in the luxury block in addition to the illegal immigrants? Are you not worried that a person who already illegally sublet will just do it again once they're handed an even nicer flat?

First point - they aren't being rehoused in a luxury block.

Second point. Home them now, sort out the details later - atm we can't be sure if they were subletting or not (due to the amnesty). Surely ensuring people have a place to live is the priority - everything else can be resolved later. Alos, if people are illegally subletting, then the council need to step up their game.

In fact the worry here is that the illegal immigrants, for fear of reprisals, aren't actually declaring themselves safe but have disappeared - which mean we might well end up with situation where the official tenants who had stopped living there can claim to be a victim and get given a new 'luxury' flat.

See my point above plus they aren't getting a luxury flat.

The other issue of course with offering some sort of amnesty and accommodation for illegal immigrants is that, well, some of them have disappeared now - if they later claim that they were living in the tower unofficially how can they prove it and what is to stop other illegal immigrants from jumping on board and claiming too?

I don't think there is any suggestion that they are going to rehouse people with no proof they lived in Grenfell.

This could actually be quite a big problem - illegal subletting in social housing is common, it is especially an issue in expensive areas of London such as this where the private sector rents are high... very tempting for someone who has a free flat worth half a million to go live with a boyfriend or family and collect some rent instead.

ot a big problem and I think the sub-letting issue is being blown out of all proportion - it probably only affects a single digit number of households and again, they aren't getting half million flat. Not not giving someone something for fear of giving someone something they don't deserve is stupid and penalises the deserving cases by association - it's like the fiasco of spending 350million on the DWP's fraud system to save 200million in fraud. It makes no sense.

“There must have been a bunch of people in that building who probably escaped on the night and probably ran away from the situation. There has been speak from other residents of a whole load of Filipinos living in there that no one has seen since it happened,” she said.

Not sure what the issue is here. If they have run away because they were not supposed to be there, then I doubt they will come back.

 

[Deleted member 66701]

Along with £thousands in charity handouts ?

In some cases, yes.

Stop being so envious.

 

[grudas]

why does it matter? it makes no difference to your or me where they live, they've experienced something that many of us will probably never have in our lifes and you lot discuss the fact that they're getting rehomed next to luxury flats. What new flats do you think get built in central london? cheap 150k ones? no, never.

 

[Mr.E.]

In some cases, yes.

Stop being so envious.

Envious ? How do you come to that conclusion ?

 

[glenimp617]

I know they said on the news the flats were worth 1.2 million, but that's purely based on location. If they were anywhere else in the country they would be what...70k I mean a brick is a bloody brick. Unless they have solid gold light switches and diamond encrusted window sills?

 

[FTM]

ooof

turns out Camden Council had the same stuff fitted to 5 of their blocks

the difference being they had specified flame retardent panels with rock wool instead of polythelene

so who made a buck there then fitting cheaper panels and who signed off the work without checking they were getting what they were paying for!

 

[IronWarrior]

You win worst post of the thread, congrats on your complete lack of humanity

So you okay with a Fireman risking his life who might die to save someone who shouldn't be there in the first place?

We have rules and laws for things, if a sign says you don't go that way because it's dangerous, you don't ignore it and go anyway, if you go ahead and get hurt, you risk other people lives who have to come rescue you.

Not like any of this has happened before when people don't follow the rules.

 

[FTM]

emergency service saves lives regardless of sex/race/political affiliation or right to be there

its like saying they shouldnt rescue kids who have fallen through a roof or been electrocuted on a train line

or a paramedic refusing to treat people because they shouldnt have been there

I bet if you ask a fireman if he cares who he is rescuing it makes not one bit of difference to him

 

[Dunks]

So you okay with a Fireman risking his life who might die to save someone who shouldn't be there in the first place?

We have rules and laws for things, if a sign says you don't go that way because it's dangerous, you don't ignore it and go anyway, if you go ahead and get hurt, you risk other people lives who have to come rescue you.

Not like any of this has happened before when people don't follow the rules.

Comparing someone doing something both dangerous and illegal to someone possibly living illegally but not doing anything dangerous is comparing apples and oranges.

 

[Cern]

I know they said on the news the flats were worth 1.2 million, but that's purely based on location. If they were anywhere else in the country they would be what...70k I mean a brick is a bloody brick. Unless they have solid gold light switches and diamond encrusted window sills?

There's a lot of dodgy reporting on this, with obvious agenda. It's important to remember that the flats being offered for the rehousing are the "affordable" housing component of the development (most new developments have to include a certain % of affordable housing). So whilst very nice flats, they aren't the luxury flats certain sections of the media are claiming them to be. As you point out, what's considered "affordable" in London would have a very different value elsewhere. But can you really get a 1 or 2 bed flat for £70k anywhere these days?

 

[Deleted member 66701]

Envious ? How do you come to that conclusion ?

Why else would you be upset if someone gets help from a charity after losing their home to a fire?

 

[Deleted member 66701]

So you okay with a Fireman risking his life who might die to save someone who shouldn't be there in the first place?

What? It's a human being, of course I'm ok with someone trying to save them.

 

[IronWarrior]

emergency service saves lives regardless of sex/race/political affiliation or right to be there

its like saying they shouldnt rescue kids who have fallen through a roof or been electrocuted on a train line

or a paramedic refusing to treat people because they shouldnt have been there

I bet if you ask a fireman if he cares who he is rescuing it makes not one bit of difference to him

No one is saying anything that the Emergency Services shouldn't pick or choose who to save.

Comparing someone doing something both dangerous and illegal to someone possibly living illegally but not doing anything dangerous is comparing apples and oranges.

Coming here and living illegally and in high rise buildings in flats only meant for X amount of persons puts everyone in danger, it's stupid and dangerous.

Many cities around the world and especially China in places like Beijing are suffering problems with allowing 100's of people to live in tower blocks only meant to have a limited number, for example the 400+ people living in the underground parts of an apartment complex with one exit.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...artment-complex-basement-cellar-a7799496.html

London isn't any different, there is a lot of dodgy housing going on there too, no where as bad as this, but it's happening.

 

[Phonesis]

I guarantee it was dirty, poorly maintained, full of people that weren't supposed to be there.

The kind of people that live in a tower block like that do not live tidy, by-the-rules lives. They break the rules and make a mess.

You've obviously not had much experience in life.

Don't forget some were privately renting. Think mostly on the higher floors such as the Italian graduate architect couple who were sadly lost on the 23rd floor.

 

[glenimp617]

There's a lot of dodgy reporting on this, with obvious agenda. It's important to remember that the flats being offered for the rehousing are the "affordable" housing component of the development (most new developments have to include a certain % of affordable housing). So whilst very nice flats, they aren't the luxury flats certain sections of the media are claiming them to be. As you point out, what's considered "affordable" in London would have a very different value elsewhere. But can you really get a 1 or 2 bed flat for £70k anywhere these days?

You can in gainsborough with change

Actually, forgetting about gainsborough itself, you can buy a brand new build 5 bed detached, double garage (utility, study, dining room) for £168,950!

 

[cheesyboy]

I personally feel that re-homing 68 Grenfell residents in luxury and exclusive apartments is overdoing it a tad. I mean yes we get it, the government is feeling guilty, but giving them multi-million pound housing seems like stretching it a bit? And yes, of course I do have compassion for what they went through, but nevertheless...

Weren't they destined for social housing anyway? These new developments have to agree to install a proportion of social housing to their build.

The government has simply stepped in with extra cash to finish them quicker.

 

[dowie]

I don't think there is any suggestion that they are going to rehouse people with no proof they lived in Grenfell.

Not sure what the issue is here. If they have run away because they were not supposed to be there, then I doubt they will come back.

not sure what you're arguing for then - previously it seemed like you were agreeing that we should house everyone, now it seems that you're not too fussed with say illegal immigrants who were living there and that if they've disappeared then you 'doubt they'll come back'.

 

[mmj_uk]

There's a lot of dodgy reporting on this, with obvious agenda. It's important to remember that the flats being offered for the rehousing are the "affordable" housing component of the development (most new developments have to include a certain % of affordable housing). So whilst very nice flats, they aren't the luxury flats certain sections of the media are claiming them to be. As you point out, what's considered "affordable" in London would have a very different value elsewhere. But can you really get a 1 or 2 bed flat for £70k anywhere these days?

Lefty Communists trying to start class warfare again. I'm surprised the right wing media has bitten.

 

[Felon]

Weren't they destined for social housing anyway? These new developments have to agree to install a proportion of social housing to their build.

The government has simply stepped in with extra cash to finish them quicker.

Quite,

The press are making the case that all these people have gone from rags to riches overnight and how it's all unfair, when in reality - the apartments they've been moved to, would have been for people in a similar situation anyway.. That last part doesn't sell as many papers.

 

[Diddums]

Christ, these people probably had crap lives before all this and then they lost everything they own and in many cases loved ones too. Give them a break ffs.

I wonder how many in here would be whinging about it of they were all white English people