Tower block fire - london

Mr.E. said:
I'm not upset in the slightest ! My point is that people lose everything by fire every week, they get a different house and probalbly the bare minimum to try and start again, not £thousands from charity.
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So are you arguing for everyone to be reduced to the same level or lifted up?
 
SlugForAButt said:
So we spend ridiculous amounts of money housing people in London, where most English people cant afford to live instead of redistributing to places that make more financial sense? There are 3 bedroom houses for 35K that would be perfectly suitable, just not in the most expensice city in the country.
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Why does anyone who isn't mega rich live in London really, it's a pretty crap existence for many ordinary people because of the insane cost of living, pollution and overcrowding. Main reasons are jobs, family and community ties. It's all very well relocating people, but without a job to go to and ripped out of their communities, you're essentially isolating them.

Would you be prepared to be uprooted several hundred miles across the country, without a job to go to, away from your friends, family and everything you know?
 
Cern said:
Why does anyone who isn't mega rich live in London really, it's a pretty crap existence for many ordinary people because of the insane cost of living, pollution and overcrowding. Main reasons are jobs, family and community ties. It's all very well relocating people, but without a job to go to and ripped out of their communities, you're essentially isolating them.

Would you be prepared to be uprooted several hundred miles across the country, without a job to go to, away from your friends, family and everything you know?
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if a lot of these people are fairly new to the country then that doesn't apply so much - certainly doesn't work for Syrian refugees

I can see the argument re: some people wanting to be housed in London as a whole though rather than sent across the country - there is certainly an argument I support that social housing in say Westminster or Kensington is a massively inefficient use of resources - though I'm not objecting to the generous cost price deal for a new block for the victims of this tragedy per say but rather that there needs to be some reform in this area in general
 
Why was the Syrian refugee living there when he had family still living in Syria,
who the UK government have flown in at no cost to them,and housed for his funeral?
Would they or have they done the same for an American, a Swede or a Swiss person living there's family?
 
Chris Wilson said:
Why was the Syrian refugee living there when he had family still living in Syria,
who the UK government have flown in at no cost to them,and housed for his funeral?
Would they or have they done the same for an American, a Swede or a Swiss person living there's family?
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Not quite sure what you are saying but apparently he had come here to study civil engineering IIRC with the intention of developing the skills to help rebuild Syria if/when the war was over.
 
There were only a handful of Syrian refugees in a block of 500+. But isn't it convenient how the first named victim was a Syrian refugee? It clearly suited the media's narrative because it's now constantly being brought up along with the other stuff about illegal immigrants. Let's get everyone hysterical about refugees and immigrants crowding the building and getting luxury handouts, rather than the really scandalous issues. Deflection, as usual.

And yet, when you look down the list of the dead and missing, or see the interviews with those who escaped, there's a whole mix of people, the majority of whom are clearly everyday folk. Maybe not everyday folk in deepest Shropshire or sunny Surrey, but everyday London folk. Yes, some are relatively new to London, but many are British citizens who have lived in London and that tower block for many many years.

The narrative on this disaster seems to be taking a rather ugly, but predictable, turn of late.
 
Cern said:
There were only a handful of Syrian refugees in a block of 500+. But isn't it convenient how the first named victim was a Syrian refugee? It clearly suited the media's narrative because it's now constantly being brought up along with the other stuff about illegal immigrants. Let's get everyone hysterical about refugees and immigrants crowding the building and getting luxury handouts, rather than the really scandalous issues. Deflection, as usual.

And yet, when you look down the list of the dead and missing, or see the interviews with those who escaped, there's a whole mix of people, the majority of whom are clearly everyday folk. Maybe not everyday folk in deepest Shropshire or sunny Surrey, but everyday London folk. Yes, some are relatively new to London, but many are British citizens who have lived in London and that tower block for many many years.

The narrative on this disaster seems to be taking a rather ugly, but predictable, turn of late.
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Or maybe, just maybe... its especially saddening?

Ignoring the faff that comes after it, a Syrian dying due to British complacency after being driven from his home due to civil war is personally more unfortunate than a native dying who has likely had a relatively nicer existence.
 
Do worry about some people on here at times, I'm hoping it's just the fact they're behind a screen and they don't lack this much compassion away from it as if that is the way they want humanity headed it's going to be far worse than living alongside some humans you don't like because they were born on a different part of the planet.
 
StriderX said:
Or maybe, just maybe... its especially saddening?

Ignoring the faff that comes after it, a Syrian dying due to British complacency after being driven from his home due to civil war is personally more unfortunate than a native dying who has likely had a relatively nicer existence.
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Yeah it's especially saddening, I completely agree. But that's not how it's being reported or manipulated by much of the media or many of the posters here is it?
 
dowie said:
if a lot of these people are fairly new to the country then that doesn't apply so much - certainly doesn't work for Syrian refugees

I can see the argument re: some people wanting to be housed in London as a whole though rather than sent across the country - there is certainly an argument I support that social housing in say Westminster or Kensington is a massively inefficient use of resources - though I'm not objecting to the generous cost price deal for a new block for the victims of this tragedy per say but rather that there needs to be some reform in this area in general
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Probably in part to try and equalize the load around the country, and because there will be less people complaining about immigrants in London than say, Shropshire.
 
Chris Wilson said:
Why was the Syrian refugee living there when he had family still living in Syria,
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Erm, because he came here to study. He doesn't HAVE to bring his family with him - in fact, I'm sure I've seen you argue against people doing exactly that.

who the UK government have flown in at no cost to them,and housed for his funeral?
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Are you saying they shouldn't have done it?

Would they or have they done the same for an American, a Swede or a Swiss person living there's family?
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I'm sure they would have if their financial situation prevented them from arranging it themselves.
 
Amp34 said:
Probably in part to try and equalize the load around the country, and because there will be less people complaining about immigrants in London than say, Shropshire.
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that's true, though I think there is definitely some need for various housing reform in London (why expensive areas, how waiting lists could be cut, resources used efficiently, why we shouldn't have these tower blocks and should have torn them down ages ago etc...) - though I guess that is a topic for another thread

I'm certainly not opposed to the new 'luxury' block - that seems to be a very nice deal sorted by the City of London and the developer and much better than the silly comments from some politicians re: requisitioning homes owned by foreign buyers etc..
 
amigafan2003 said:
Erm, because he came here to study. He doesn't HAVE to bring his family with him - in fact, I'm sure I've seen you argue against people doing exactly that.
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Boom, headshot :D

Are you saying they shouldn't have done it?
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I think he is

I'm sure they would have if their financial situation prevented them from arranging it themselves.
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You only need an iota of humanity to realise that's the answer
 
amigafan2003 said:
Do you even know what refugee status means?
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This is from the UK government's web site, as you seem to be claiming better understanding of the system than I, for whatever reason, perhaps you can tell me on what basis he was allowed refugee status whilst having an extended family still living in Syria? Why did he not come as an international student by conventional means, for example?


The UK has extensive provisions in place to provide protection to persons seeking asylum while protecting the public from individuals who may exploit the asylum system. The application process for asylum seekers starts at the border. A fast-track process has been developed to help reduce the extensive caseload of asylum cases, which allows certain applications to be rejected upon receipt if the individual is from a country deemed safe by the UK. For all other applicants, a decision is made on the well-established criteria of whether the individual has a well-founded fear of persecution or other harm. A new program has been introduced in response to the Syrian crisis, which accepts selected refugees from the Syrian region.
 
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