Tower block fire - london

n111ck said:
The PM has promised actual help in providing alternative accomadation (not fantasy mansions) and a public enquiry (not a political mudslinging fest followed up by ambulance chasers).
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He's not running the country, of course,so can only offer to harass into action those who are
 
JohnnyG said:
There were fire alarms in the communal areas which are managed by the building landlord and these didn't go off until 4am apparently, presumably that has something to do with the fire raging up the outside of the building and not actually in the communal areas for a while.
The responsibility for fire/smoke alarms in each flat would fall with the owner or individual landlord.
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Should have been fire alarms in corridors / communal areas and stairwells, one of which should be audible from within each flat, it takes very little smoke particulate to set off a fire detector, they should have gone off very early, not circa 3 hours after the fire started.
 
Firestar_3x said:
Should have been fire alarms in corridors / communal areas and stairwells, one of which should be audible from within each flat, it takes very little smoke particulate to set off a fire detector, they should have gone off very early, not circa 3 hours after the fire started.
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I agree, just pointing out that there were alarms installed and probably just enough to get the medium fire risk rating.
 
Firestar_3x said:
Should have been fire alarms in corridors / communal areas and stairwells, one of which should be audible from within each flat, it takes very little smoke particulate to set off a fire detector, they should have gone off very early, not circa 3 hours after the fire started.
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Needs an evacuation alarm as well otherwise people will still stay in the flats when the fire alarm goes off as per the safety instructions.
All these buildings have an intercom system, should be pretty easy to tie in an evacuation warning in to it. I wonder if they already have to way to speak all flats at once, for the fire service for example to tell people its best to leave rather than stay.

You can become very complacent about fire alarms if they keep going off. I lived in a flat where the communal alarm went off at least once a week due to a fault they could never fix and it just got to the point where you would ignore it.
 
fran the can said:
Yes where here again and this time people are angry and I am one of them Governments tory and labour have cut and cut this country to the bone then when something like the London block of flats fire happens they go into hiding giving the old chestnuts ( we will do everything in our power to stop this happening again will they- will they hell they let company’s off the hook for regulations, skimp on building materials , and lease out contracts to the cheapest bidders some might say but you can’t look after everything that goes on – NOW try telling that to the poor relatives who lost there mums ,dads sisters and brothers – WHY- because of Austerity do people of all colours, race, nationality young – old cutting back to the bare bone Politicians should bee ashamed of themselves for letting it get like this My wife said this morning when you go to buy a chair or a living room suite if it as no fire proof foam you would not buy it there again regulations say you cannot sell it so why wasn’t the insulation foam between the metal casing not fire proof what a shambolic country we have become where money is more important than life

And has for that councillor who came on tv this morning saying they looked at the safety issue and thought it was ok should have to live in a block of flats for the rest of his life

RANT OVER FOR NOW
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yep they have cut the spending in the country but yet strangely left it with any ever increasing, eye watering pile of debt to deal with.... What could possibly go wrong if they matched your imagined spending plans?

perhaps we could just wait for the outcome of the enquiry before we all become instant experts assuming that 'cuts' are the sole/primary cause of the fire?
 
Yes the 'cuts' argument is a bit strange. It recently had a multi million pound refurb.... money wasn't the issue imo.

Was more than likely the refurb itself.
 
fran the can said:
Yes where here again and this time people are angry and I am one of them Governments tory and labour have cut and cut this country to the bone then when something like the London block of flats fire happens they go into hiding giving the old chestnuts ( we will do everything in our power to stop this happening again will they- will they hell they let company’s off the hook for regulations, skimp on building materials , and lease out contracts to the cheapest bidders some might say but you can’t look after everything that goes on – NOW try telling that to the poor relatives who lost there mums ,dads sisters and brothers – WHY- because of Austerity do people of all colours, race, nationality young – old cutting back to the bare bone Politicians should bee ashamed of themselves for letting it get like this My wife said this morning when you go to buy a chair or a living room suite if it as no fire proof foam you would not buy it there again regulations say you cannot sell it so why wasn’t the insulation foam between the metal casing not fire proof what a shambolic country we have become where money is more important than life

And has for that councillor who came on tv this morning saying they looked at the safety issue and thought it was ok should have to live in a block of flats for the rest of his life

RANT OVER FOR NOW
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£9m worth of refits doesn't sound like any Government cuts really.
 
Caracus2k said:
please kindly explain what the **** this has to do with May? No really do! Do you really think the residents of the block would have welcomed a chat with May or do you think it would have turned into a shouting and screaming match with some bereaved and emotional people looking to blame someone, anyone and lashing out with the shamless media on hand to make some political hay ? Perhaps all political leaders should have stayed away until at least the building stopped smoledring so that the emergency services and staff on the ground could concentrate in the matter in hand rather than providing support to someone's photo opportunity?
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Yeah I think this and that. Who cares? No one in government cares about that blob you just wrote on ocuk. I said May's days could be numbered because that's my assumption.
 
balky12 said:
In an interview he talked about the rich and the poor. How poor that area is, 'most probably the poorest ward in the country', and how rich Kensington/ Chelsea are.

He then suggested that empty homes, in Kensington/ Chelsea area, owned by investment firms and the like should be requisitioned, if necessary, to house the people affected by this.

Sorry I didn't use as many words.

Whilst I don't necessary disagree with his POA, the way he went about it, deliberately focusing on rich v poor as an opener, is cheap political point scoring. Not everyone in that flat was poor... and all vacant homes in the vicinity should be requisitioned if need be.
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So because you don't like the rich / poor angle, you think it's okay to totally misrepresent what he said? "not in so many words" doesn't do it justice.

And as for the rich / poor angle. you can't get away from the fact that "the rich" have empty properties close by. "the poor" don't. When he's talking about "the rich", he's not talking about local residents being forced to take in lodgers. Most of "the rich" that own empty properties across London aren't even citizens or taxpayers.
 
Over the last 12 months I've changed from a right-wing capitalist leave voting tory to a middle/left remain camp labour voter; who now supports the public sector over the private one

I really hope this public enquiry turns up some major failings, jail time and an overhaul of the entire thing

This country is an absolute joke, and will only get worse after we leave the EU
 
cheesyboy said:
Inconvenient that you retorted with "so did Stalin"?
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Except that Corbyn and Stalin both share the same political philosophy - Marxism. The comparison is valid. I don't buy into this nice guy image he's manage to portray himself as at all, I think he hates Britain and British people. I'm not going to suggest he'll set up gulags and send us all there, but I do think that if he ever becomes PM he will deliberately try to undermine the nation and make life more uncomfortable for people who don't live in big cities.
 
scorza said:
Except that Corbyn and Stalin both share the same political philosophy - Marxism. The comparison is valid. I don't buy into this nice guy image he's manage to portray himself as at all, I think he hates Britain and British people. I'm not going to suggest he'll set up gulags and send us all there, but I do think that if he ever becomes PM he will deliberately try to undermine the nation and make life more uncomfortable for people who don't live in big cities.
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Don't double down on the Stalin, mate. Just looks a bit silly.
 
JohnnyG said:
I agree, just pointing out that there were alarms installed and probably just enough to get the medium fire risk rating.
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The problem with people installing their own Fire alarm is it doesn't notify of any others below or above you. If there was a fire 2 floors below an alarm better damn well notify me on my floor so I can get the hell out.

I've always been concerned living in flats and stuff like this makes me glad I chose not to live in them. I know this stuff is extremely unlikely to happen.... But I cant deny it has crossed my mind and made me feel weary of them.
 
inogen said:
So because you don't like the rich / poor angle, you think it's okay to totally misrepresent what he said? "not in so many words" doesn't do it justice.

And as for the rich / poor angle. you can't get away from the fact that "the rich" have empty properties close by. "the poor" don't. When he's talking about "the rich", he's not talking about local residents being forced to take in lodgers. Most of "the rich" that own empty properties across London aren't even citizens or taxpayers.
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So in an interview... he said somehting along the lines of:

How poor that area is, 'most probably the poorest ward in the country', and how rich Kensington/ Chelsea are.

He then suggested that empty homes, in Kensington/ Chelsea area, owned by investment firms and the like should be requisitioned, if necessary, to house the people affected by this.

Or he could have said...

balky12 said:
'In light of this tragedy, we are looking into the possibility of temporarily requisitioning local empty houses to aid the relief effort, and to help those who have lost everything.'
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Now if the welfare of the people was his main priority, and not political point scoring, imo, he would have chosen option 2...

Yes they both mean the same thing, have a rich v poor element to it, like you said.

I disagree with how he went about it. The building is still smoldering, it was distasteful.
 
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