Traffic filters will divide Oxford into six '15 minute' neighbourhoods
- Thread starter Sankari
- Start date
I remember back to the COVID lock downs. My local area felt absolutely lovely. Roads that were empty. Less noise. You could get in your car at any time of day and not have to check your watch for whether it might be school pick up time or rush hour, and just go to where you needed to go very quickly. (I did a bit of driving during COVID as had to move house and could not get a removals van).
Now it feels like we are back to not just pre COVID levels, but traffic worse than pre COVID. A lot of it round my way is a combination of roads needing repair, new builds going up and utilities companies again for fibre work.
We need less cars on the road full stop, but I dislike the idea of the 15 minute city restrictions. I dislike the idea of any restriction of movement really. I don't think there is any easy solution when the UK is so geared around car usage.
Is there not some places in the world where they do non use car days? I'm sure that was a thing somewhere....how on earth do they police that? *wonders off to google*
Now it feels like we are back to not just pre COVID levels, but traffic worse than pre COVID. A lot of it round my way is a combination of roads needing repair, new builds going up and utilities companies again for fibre work.
We need less cars on the road full stop, but I dislike the idea of the 15 minute city restrictions. I dislike the idea of any restriction of movement really. I don't think there is any easy solution when the UK is so geared around car usage.
Is there not some places in the world where they do non use car days? I'm sure that was a thing somewhere....how on earth do they police that? *wonders off to google*
The problem with almost everything our incompetent politicians do is that they are incompetent. They half ass it. They manage to somehow often come out with a solution that ****** off all sides of the debate.
As a cyclist a cycle lane can be great. The majority of them around me however are ******* awful if you actually want to get anywhere fast. We have cycle lanes on the pavement but you are then crossing blind access roads and driveways constantly so you can't go very fast. They come and go regularly so you are punted onto the road anyway and then you have to worry about joining a busy road. Then you have pedestrians who take up the whole lane. Result. Much easier and faster to use the road.
Their other one is to just put a cycle lane at the side of the road and use painted lines to denote it. Its a thin lane so in the winter its full of crap because thats where it accumulates. In a mile or so long stretch it disappears probably 5 times for sections and then 80% will have cars parked over it at various intervals. Result, its largely usless.
And as all the nice drivers will say "use the cycle lane!!!". Sure thing mate. I'll use the crappy cycle lane, make my journey twice as long and more dangerous in some cases. Imagine if cars were told to use the back roads instead of the motorways. Thats what our cycling infrastructure is. A poor way of making the same journey I could make on the roads.
With all cycling infrastructure you need a belt and braces approach. You need to make it safe, good quality and enjoyable to use. You also need to make it the preferable mode of transport because most people are lazy oiks who would happily spend 20 minutes sat in traffic instead of 10 minutes on a bike. Obviously with the mandatory whinge about how much traffic there is an how its those "bloody cyclists" fault.
As a cyclist a cycle lane can be great. The majority of them around me however are ******* awful if you actually want to get anywhere fast. We have cycle lanes on the pavement but you are then crossing blind access roads and driveways constantly so you can't go very fast. They come and go regularly so you are punted onto the road anyway and then you have to worry about joining a busy road. Then you have pedestrians who take up the whole lane. Result. Much easier and faster to use the road.
Their other one is to just put a cycle lane at the side of the road and use painted lines to denote it. Its a thin lane so in the winter its full of crap because thats where it accumulates. In a mile or so long stretch it disappears probably 5 times for sections and then 80% will have cars parked over it at various intervals. Result, its largely usless.
And as all the nice drivers will say "use the cycle lane!!!". Sure thing mate. I'll use the crappy cycle lane, make my journey twice as long and more dangerous in some cases. Imagine if cars were told to use the back roads instead of the motorways. Thats what our cycling infrastructure is. A poor way of making the same journey I could make on the roads.
With all cycling infrastructure you need a belt and braces approach. You need to make it safe, good quality and enjoyable to use. You also need to make it the preferable mode of transport because most people are lazy oiks who would happily spend 20 minutes sat in traffic instead of 10 minutes on a bike. Obviously with the mandatory whinge about how much traffic there is an how its those "bloody cyclists" fault.
Yeah. It works in Netherlands because they fully commit to it and properly implement it where cycles have priority. Literally everyone cycles everywhere in Amsterdam. Bikes litter the streets.
The UK will never get to that level. Ever. We are too lazy as a nation.
The issue isn't that people use cars, its that they use them for absolutely everything. We are an overweight and lazy population. People drive 5 minutes to work. People drive 2 minutes to the local shop to pick up a loaf of bread and some milk. I'm not advocating that cars are banned but cars should have their place in the transport system and it shouldn't be at the top of the priority list. Cars should be for going longer distances or picking up large items.
Whenever I go out on my bike around my local area I am almost always faster than a car would be. If we made more infrastructure for bikes then slowly but surely more and more people would see them as the default mode of transport in urban areas. Thats the big issue, infrastructure and attitude. People are so full of hate for cyclists that they would cut of their nose to spite their face simply for that reason. Countries where cycling is the norm are far healthier and happier.
At the moment we are but with the correct planning and restrictions on cars in built up areas we could fairly quickly move towards that goal. Yes, you have to be punitive with cars to push people to use alternatives because we are so indoctrinated to get in the car to go anywhere. Unless your wallet gets hit hard or its a horrible, time wasting experience when you make frivolous journeys nothing will change. We have places in the UK where a much higher percentage of people cycle and its all about infrastructure and restrictions.
We can't keep going down the current route. Its crazy.
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Ever seen the steepest hill in the Netherlands? One reason they cycle a lot is it's very flat, some hilly areas in UK are a lot harder to get around on a bike for your average citizens.
I stopped driving years back and walk, cycle or use public transport, but even in London many bike lanes are terrible and many people do still need cars for kids or physical disabilities. Fewer cars is a solution, but many just don't want to give them up, even owning multiple ones per family.
As a dedicated cyclist even I can't blame people for still wanting cars, but the current policies especially in London are geared towards people just giving them up, a lot of vulnerable people still need cars, but as a society we may be better off if fewer people use them.
I stopped driving years back and walk, cycle or use public transport, but even in London many bike lanes are terrible and many people do still need cars for kids or physical disabilities. Fewer cars is a solution, but many just don't want to give them up, even owning multiple ones per family.
As a dedicated cyclist even I can't blame people for still wanting cars, but the current policies especially in London are geared towards people just giving them up, a lot of vulnerable people still need cars, but as a society we may be better off if fewer people use them.
Instead of being punitive to the driver how about using a restorative model and provide benefits to cyclists and public transport users? Make public transport free and more frequent, provide inner city free bike hire, stuff like that.
I don't know why I'm suggesting this, you won't get me out of my car as I have a 60 mile round trip commute to work
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I don't know why I'm suggesting this, you won't get me out of my car as I have a 60 mile round trip commute to work
!Instead of being punitive to the driver how about using a restorative model and provide benefits to cyclists and public transport users? Make public transport free and more frequent, provide inner city free bike hire, stuff like that.
I don't know why I'm suggesting this, you won't get me out of my car as I have a 60 mile round trip commute to work
In the UK if you give an inch, people will take a mile. Completely free public transport would have issues with tramps and people just riding around on buses taking up space. Free bike hire would mean they would probably all get nicked and abused.
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With the availability of ebikes now, hills are pretty much irrelevant for people that want to cycle. Its just the cost being the barrier now but they are coming down
Man of Honour
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- 29 Mar 2003
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As a cyclist I've definitely seen this.
Fair enough my commute is 90% paths but there are five areas where I either have to cross roads or use them for a tiny stretch.
The three roads I cross hold me up now because there is so much traffic and even though it's stationary nobody wants to let a scum cyclist pass in front of them.
I've had to add a couple of minutes to my 22 minute commute to make sure I walk in the office at 8:30am.
Also everything that @fez says about cycle paths, in Stoke they are horrendous.
Outside the hospital we have a 1.5 mile cycle path both sides of the road but you need full MTB suspension because there is a tree every 10 yards and the roots have lifted up the path.
We also have cycle lanes that go from road to pavement to road to pavement and so on with the worst being this one - https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.9...pi8PdKN2A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en&authuser=0
I bet @Malevolence has used that one
Last year I was in Cambridge for 3 days and apparently they have 39,000 bikes because students aren't allowed to have a car within x miles of the City, imagine if they were all in cars.
Soldato
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- South Wales
It seems they have come up with the idea of less cars is better (which I agree with) but then don't offer any sensible solutions to less cars.
Welsh government has basically stopped all road building now. Tell us to use public transport instead but then don't offer any solutions to better public transport outside Newport and Cardiff. If you live outside of that small bubble it's so much of a pain to get anywhere with public transport you may as well drive.
Welsh government has basically stopped all road building now. Tell us to use public transport instead but then don't offer any solutions to better public transport outside Newport and Cardiff. If you live outside of that small bubble it's so much of a pain to get anywhere with public transport you may as well drive.
I'm going to have to bring up the subject of taxation of motorists too. There will be less fuel duty tax collected through less fuel being used so expect another government raid somehow. Also, since you are effectively stopping people using their cars, how about a rebate on our road tax? Could always travel to work on that flying pig when that happens.
If anyone wants to have a really nice idea about how the dregs of society feel about cycling just go on any dailymail article that involves it. Someone is killed by a driver sitting on their phone and it will be "and thats why cyclists shouldn't be on the roads".
Unfortunately infrastructure generally needs public support for large scale change and I am constantly amazed at the hostility towards cyclists from even the most mild mannered and nice people. My parners uncle is a classic old school GP. Soft spoken, generally doesn't like to have strong opinions on things and wouldn't say boo to a goose. I was talking to him about cyclists and boy was I shocked.
Motorists will watch 5 people in cars jump a light, nearly crash and do all manner of very dangerous things and as soon as they see a cyclist run a light they are up in arms.
Unfortunately infrastructure generally needs public support for large scale change and I am constantly amazed at the hostility towards cyclists from even the most mild mannered and nice people. My parners uncle is a classic old school GP. Soft spoken, generally doesn't like to have strong opinions on things and wouldn't say boo to a goose. I was talking to him about cyclists and boy was I shocked.
Motorists will watch 5 people in cars jump a light, nearly crash and do all manner of very dangerous things and as soon as they see a cyclist run a light they are up in arms.
I think they would argue that they cannot police the actual usage where people may end up driving the long way around these barrier blocks actually driving more. The government will take more duty as people use more fuel to avoid it so they win there anyway.
Soldato
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Cancelling the M4 Newport bypass has to be one of the most short sighted political decisions I can think of. That stretch of motorway is a huge bottleneck on economic development West of Newport. Also because the traffic doesn't flow you get 5 - 10 mile tailbacks on bad days all just idling away. The sense of relief I felt when I realised I wouldn't be making that journey on a weekly basis was wonderful.
Thats already going to be an issue when electric cars are the norm. Part of the reason electric cars are no longer going to be exempt from VED as well. I would wager that if you actually incentivised community and using your local town centres through good public transport and infrastructure you would take more tax from peoples spending. If you made public transport better and increased numbers using it you would make more money.
Part of that is that its safer for cyclists to do it. In some parts of the US its law that cyclists don't have to stop at junctions as its far safer for them to clear them quickly. The issues come with idiots who ignore everyone else and cause trouble for pedestrians and cars alike.
Of course that wouldn't but its not that simple. More people would be employed in small businesses, more taxes would be collected on wages and profits, electric cars will kill taxes from fuel anyway. People who have a local community have a better quality of life and have a more vested interest in the local areas. It makes it safer and more desirable. Its better for children to exercise and travel by bike. It gives them more freedom. Parents don't have to drive their kids everywhere.
The benefits of encouraging a more pedestrianised centre in towns and cities are massive and its not all financial.
The more we can encourage people not to be fat slobs the better as well. The NHS is going to crumble in the next few decades if we don't address it and things like exercise are a part of that.