Traffic filters will divide Oxford into six '15 minute' neighbourhoods

[MichaelAwkward]

Public transport in Oxfordshire is better than most places, but it's constrained by the amount of traffic on the major routes in and out of the city.

I made a journey into Oxford just today using the ring road as designed - join from the A34, off at Cowley to do some shopping and get a haircut, then rejoin and travel round to the north to nip into Summertown for some lunch, then back out again to rejoin the A34 and go home. Some people would instead drive into the centre of Oxford to reach places, cutting down quiet residential streets to get through to Cowley, Headington, Summertown, etc. That's the type of journey these measures are aiming to stop.

If I was heading just into the centre of Oxford, I would've taken the bus instead.

How does this help with climate change though, everybody will just be using the ring roads and burning more fuel because they now have to travel further

The 15minute city idea is great, but the closing off the roads and making everybody use a ring road is a terrible idea if the aim is to reduce carbon emissions

I doubt this is true - cars in slow moving stop start traffic must surely emit more than smooth flowing traffic on dual carriageways? Isn't 50mph the most optimal speed for fuel consumption? I imagine that goes hand in hand with emissions.

Ultimately less journeys to begin with is the goal, and a concerted effort to align planning guidelines with traffic measures like this to improve the availability of services within 15 minutes of people's homes in cities like Oxford would be welcomed by most normal people. Nobody likes driving half an hour sitting in traffic to reach places. If the alternatives are within walking or cycling distance, less car journeys will be made.

If I lived in Oxford itself, I probably wouldn't even own a car. I see the problem even in the town I live in nearby though - people driving distances that would take 10-15 minutes to walk, and less to cycle. That needs to be stopped for everyone's benefit. The only people who should be doing that are those that physically cannot walk or cycle.

It's not an assault on people's freedoms to stop them having a detrimental effect on everyone else by behaving like selfish morons. It's part and parcel of being in a society and happens every day in a multitude of different ways (particularly concerning driving). Those that don't agree are free to emigrate to the plains of Montana or wherever else.

 

[dlockers]

An underground road system or a Monorail

We've got monorails as far as Shelbyville and North Haverbrook!

....mono

 

[Trifid]

How does this help with climate change though, everybody will just be using the ring roads and burning more fuel because they now have to travel further

The 15minute city idea is great, but the closing off the roads and making everybody use a ring road is a terrible idea if the aim is to reduce carbon emissions

Less traffic on local roads improves the pollution levels for residents.

People currently regularly driving from one side of the city to the other will be more likely to chose the bus or cycle with less cars on the local roads.

The planning principle of '15 minutes cities' is a good idea. Having local amenities that you don't need to drive to makes a lot of sense. Moving everything to out of town box stores was a bad idea and car dependency is really bad as it forces people to cling on to cars when they shouldn't.

 

[PlacidCasual]

People don’t live in the same neighbourhood they work in. This scheme is going to punish the working poor who rely on car to access their employment. Exactly the kind of posturing you expect from Oxford City Council.

 

[throwaway4372]

a big chunk of people who work in oxford don't live in oxford anyway coz it's too expensive, about 13x salary last time I looked

 

[Minusorange]

I doubt this is true - cars in slow moving stop start traffic must surely emit more than smooth flowing traffic on dual carriageways? Isn't 50mph the most optimal speed for fuel consumption? I imagine that goes hand in hand with emissions.

They still need to get onto the dual carriageways, have you seen motorway junctions at rush hour ? They're nearly always blocked full of slow moving traffic and that's with a total of 6 lanes

 

[Mysterae_]

Public transport in Oxfordshire is better than most places, but it's constrained by the amount of traffic on the major routes in and out of the city.

I made a journey into Oxford just today using the ring road as designed - join from the A34, off at Cowley to do some shopping and get a haircut, then rejoin and travel round to the north to nip into Summertown for some lunch, then back out again to rejoin the A34 and go home. Some people would instead drive into the centre of Oxford to reach places, cutting down quiet residential streets to get through to Cowley, Headington, Summertown, etc. That's the type of journey these measures are aiming to stop.

If I was heading just into the centre of Oxford, I would've taken the bus instead.

---

I doubt this is true - cars in slow moving stop start traffic must surely emit more than smooth flowing traffic on dual carriageways? Isn't 50mph the most optimal speed for fuel consumption? I imagine that goes hand in hand with emissions.

Ultimately less journeys to begin with is the goal, and a concerted effort to align planning guidelines with traffic measures like this to improve the availability of services within 15 minutes of people's homes in cities like Oxford would be welcomed by most normal people. Nobody likes driving half an hour sitting in traffic to reach places. If the alternatives are within walking or cycling distance, less car journeys will be made.

If I lived in Oxford itself, I probably wouldn't even own a car. I see the problem even in the town I live in nearby though - people driving distances that would take 10-15 minutes to walk, and less to cycle. That needs to be stopped for everyone's benefit. The only people who should be doing that are those that physically cannot walk or cycle.

It's not an assault on people's freedoms to stop them having a detrimental effect on everyone else by behaving like selfish morons. It's part and parcel of being in a society and happens every day in a multitude of different ways (particularly concerning driving). Those that don't agree are free to emigrate to the plains of Montana or wherever else.

A brave and well thought out post.

It's the dream isn't it? Leafy, fresh and non-polluted areas where our children can walk, play and be healthy, bringing community to where it's been lost. Sadly however people have become selfish and isolated so it'll struggle to work without a major mindset and behavioural change.

The use of the ring road as the primary method of moving around the city isn't the panacea the council think it'll be. An accident or pile-up on the ring road will have people cutting through the city anyway. Additionally it'll create a ring of pollution encircling the city.

When we are all driving around in milkfloats they won't be able to use the pollution argument anymore but that's a long way off.

 

[Resident]

Multi-use buildings aren't new... like at all.

Yes, in which the retail/entertainment areas are generally ground floor and accessed from the outside.

The plans for this skyscraper are for the retail/entertainment sections are to be sandwiched between residential and accessed internally primarily, essentially a self-contained township inside a skyscraper.

 

[Angilion]

Then our your Masters need to be reminded who they work for and answer to.

Large businesses. But they don't need reminded of that because they're well aware of it already.

 

[Rroff]

I doubt this is true - cars in slow moving stop start traffic must surely emit more than smooth flowing traffic on dual carriageways? Isn't 50mph the most optimal speed for fuel consumption? I imagine that goes hand in hand with emissions.

Most cars the fuel consumption goes through the roof if you drop much below 20MPH, depending a bit on model, and getting up to speed is one of the worst conditions for fuel economy and emissions.

Ultimately though the only significant gains come from vehicles which can fully use battery power within urban areas, improvements to reduce brake and tyre particulates, improved layouts through the centres of towns/cities - most of them are dire.

The town I grew up in they compulsory purchased about 15% of the properties in the late 60s/early 70s and straight up demolished them to put a new dual-carriageway through the centre of town and improve layout within the town, doubt we'd see that happen these days. Sadly in more recent years the council have spanked multiple millions on making the layout stupid...

 

[PlacidCasual]

The use of the ring road as the primary method of moving around the city isn't the panacea the council think it'll be. An accident or pile-up on the ring road will have people cutting through the city anyway. Additionally it'll create a ring of pollution encircling the city.

I agree for Oxford specifically the Ring Road is not a panacea. As anyone who has ever lived there wll attest. The ring road has too many roundabouts in it, there are very few flyover junctions (Cowley car works is the only one I can think of). Compare it to say Peterborough which is only a little larger than Oxford and the ringroad is flyover junctions for over 70% of it's length. Traffic moves so much more effectively.

Councils are putting ideals ahead of infrastructure and at the expense of those least able to bear it. When I speak to people born and bred in Oxford I don't hear a postive word about it. But Oxford is unlikely to be a city that is going to see a significant reversal in council representation so the locals are stuck with it.

 

[Mrwong]

I wonder what excuse will be once there are no petrol driven cars. The whole argument center's around pollution, they are spending all this money putting up cameras in the name of pollution.

People already aren't going to the city centre,. Most likely killing off those small businesses.

 

[d_brennen]

Most cars the fuel consumption goes through the roof if you drop much below 20MPH, depending a bit on model, and getting up to speed is one of the worst conditions for fuel economy and emissions.

Ultimately though the only significant gains come from vehicles which can fully use battery power within urban areas, improvements to reduce brake and tyre particulates, improved layouts through the centres of towns/cities - most of them are dire.

The town I grew up in they compulsory purchased about 15% of the properties in the late 60s/early 70s and straight up demolished them to put a new dual-carriageway through the centre of town and improve layout within the town, doubt we'd see that happen these days. Sadly in more recent years the council have spanked multiple millions on making the layout stupid...

My average economy in North London is sitting somehwere around 27mpg since LTNs were brought in on my commute, was 35ish before. Crawling along at 12mph will see it in the teens. Also added 20-45 minutes said commute. Great Success!™ My car is Euro 6 complainant so ULEZ but my mate's van isn't, and that thing does 50+mpg loaded on a good run!

"But but you should just get the bus!!" But busses are in the same traffic, full of ***** and not suitable for carrying tools or materials.

All I see is queues of traffic trying to get around the LTNs, people getting tetchy, jumping lights and other such silly risks for fear of waiting another 5 minutes. The council website is an absolute joke, they claim success yet every piece of feedback is negative

 

[Deleted member 77746]

If only we replaced cars with interstate public transport.

Would have loved to see trams, pods, trains more over cars.

Hop on, hop off.

 

[Vanquish-Storm]

They are doing something like this in areas in our town, under the guise of protecting the environment.

If it happens then rather than driving down one short road to get to the next “section” you have to drive the opposite direction and do a full loop through several residential roads and 2 main roads taking 10-20mins.

Great council!

 

[Deleted member 77746]

They are doing something like this in areas in our town, under the guise of protecting the environment.

If it happens then rather than driving down one short road to get to the next “section” you have to drive the opposite direction and do a full loop through several residential roads and 2 main roads taking 10-20mins.

Great council!

More pollution for petrol and diesel cars because they are travelling longer over shorter distances.

Aw well.

 

[MichaelAwkward]

I agree for Oxford specifically the Ring Road is not a panacea. As anyone who has ever lived there wll attest. The ring road has too many roundabouts in it, there are very few flyover junctions (Cowley car works is the only one I can think of). Compare it to say Peterborough which is only a little larger than Oxford and the ringroad is flyover junctions for over 70% of it's length. Traffic moves so much more effectively.

Councils are putting ideals ahead of infrastructure and at the expense of those least able to bear it. When I speak to people born and bred in Oxford I don't hear a postive word about it. But Oxford is unlikely to be a city that is going to see a significant reversal in council representation so the locals are stuck with it.

Definitely, replacing all the traffic light controlled smaller junctions on the ring road would do a world of good. I doubt new flyovers are possible in the current climate though.

I wonder what excuse will be once there are no petrol driven cars. The whole argument center's around pollution, they are spending all this money putting up cameras in the name of pollution.

People already aren't going to the city centre,. Most likely killing off those small businesses.

Electric cars still pollute - tyres and brakes are major sources of air pollution at a local level and EVs are heavier due to the batteries which makes them worse in that regard than ICE vehicles.

Small businesses do not rely disproportionately on customers who travel in by car - that's just nonsense. The pedestrianised parts of Oxford are great for shopping and rely heavily on passing foot traffic.

My average economy in North London is sitting somehwere around 27mpg since LTNs were brought in on my commute, was 35ish before. Crawling along at 12mph will see it in the teens. Also added 20-45 minutes said commute. Great Success!™ My car is Euro 6 complainant so ULEZ but my mate's van isn't, and that thing does 50+mpg loaded on a good run!

"But but you should just get the bus!!" But busses are in the same traffic, full of ***** and not suitable for carrying tools or materials.

All I see is queues of traffic trying to get around the LTNs, people getting tetchy, jumping lights and other such silly risks for fear of waiting another 5 minutes. The council website is an absolute joke, they claim success yet every piece of feedback is negative

The busses are surely only in the same traffic because of people who refuse to use them though? One bus, if full, can take 60-90 cars off the road if they're transporting individual people. People make up all sorts of reasons for not using them when they'd still refuse to use them even if they met all of their requirements.

 

[Mrwong]

Definitely, replacing all the traffic light controlled smaller junctions on the ring road would do a world of good. I doubt new flyovers are possible in the current climate though.



Electric cars still pollute - tyre and brakes are major sources of air pollution at a local level and EVs are heavier due to the batteries which makes them worse in that regard to ICE vehicles.



The busses are surely only in the same traffic because of people who refuse to use them though? One bus, if full, can take 60-90 cars off the road if they're transporting individual people. People make up all sorts of reasons for not using them when they'd still refuse to use them even if they met all of their requirements.

Everything pollutes if you use that argument. Then I expect renovation works on buildings to be charged for polluting, TFL trains should be charged for polluting, planes etc.. is that were we are heading.

If they are no petrol cars there should be no pollution restrictions on areas, as that is the main argument.

 

[MichaelAwkward]

Everything pollutes if you use that argument.

If they are no petrol cars there should be no pollution restrictions on areas, as that is the main argument.

That's the whole argument for 15 minute neighbourhoods... less journeys to begin with, regardless of vehicle. Less pollution, less speeding, less congestion, more exercise, less stress, etc, etc. People who don't want those things and wish to maintain how things are now are broken in the head.

It's not targeting petrol cars specifically, I'm not sure where you got that idea from? It's targeting all vehicles making unnecassary journeys.

ICEs are being targeted separately by the ZEZ zone currently being trialled in the centre of Oxford.

 

[Mrwong]

That's the whole argument for 15 minute neighbourhoods... less journeys to begin with, regardless of vehicle. Less pollution, less speeding, less congestion, more exercise, less stress, etc, etc. People who don't want those things are broken in the head.

It's not targeting petrol cars specifically, I'm not sure where you got that idea from? It's targeting all vehicles making unnecassary journeys.

Just money driven, and control nothing else.
You can't just select one target, building pollution is pollution.

I say get rid of all passenger planes, they produce high levels of pollution.

What next 30 years from now your council will face scan you while you are walking, to inform that you have breached the 15min rule and you are out of bounds.(Because your slippers are polluting).

Keeping you in boundaries, less visual assess to those that are wealthy, increasing the wealth gap.
Reducing the ability to protest, being a number not a person etc...

This is were it is heading, total control of your freedoms.