*Transfer Window 2014/15 Season Rumours/Signings *AKA Man U fans listing every player under the Sun

[Rusty0611]

Bit like saying if they sign messi and ronaldo they could win the league, pretty pointless statement. It's not FM.

That argument is inherently flawed because you're trying to counter my point by suggesting I have said that signing the two best players in the world is realistic.

So no it isn't like saying that because Vidal and Hummels are both realistic targets. I don't think there's any disagreement in anybody more in the know than you or I that both are available at the right price. The right price being a stumbling block. Dortmund don't need to sell Hummels so it would take a lot of money to get him out but a deal could be done if United were willing to pay.

I disagree with your CL statement too, I think CL football would be more important than money for most true winners. It states you are at a fantastic club competing in the best competitions.

Those players are around the 27-29 mark, prime of their career, probably already millionaires. CL football or get paid an extra £20k per week. If they choose the money then they aren't worth having in my eyes.

You may disagree but historical precedence completely disagrees with you so I think we'll go for that over any fickle fan views. It's all about the project, how they're viewed in the club and what they're paid.

You also aren't considering how far the teams that these players play for get in the CL each year. They aren't 'winners' if their team goes out in the second round / quarters - they're just another good player at a decent club like most top footballers. If United had been out of the CL for a good few years then yes it becomes more of a problem but at the moment I doubt it even factors into negotiations. Especially if they're selling 'the project' under LVG well.

 

[Azza]

We're signing Atsu on loan.


I'm sure that'll please Wenger.

 

[fez]

TBH I could see Hummels saying no, with Champions League football being a significant part of that decision - I mean, he's obviously settled in Germany, at a quality team, playing in the Champions League, etc... whereas moving is a risk, at a time when the national team is extremely strong and he'd surely be worried about slipping out of that, if not demonstrating his qualities in the premier competition. What reason does he have to move, if you take money out of the equation?

The main reason I don't think we would get him is that a huge number of the worlds top clubs would want him if he was available. Lets be honest though, BD are a selling club. They are unlikely to stop that in the near future so if he wants to win the CL he needs to go elsewhere. As you say though, it depends what his priorities are.

 

[Rusty0611]

How often have players moved from Champions League clubs to non-Champions League clubs? You say historical precedence completely disagrees with the idea players won't move to non-Champions League clubs, but how often does it happen?! Obviously it did with Citeh, but you say what you did as though it's a common thing, when it's not. Unless you can list this 'whole hoard of players'...

TBH I could see Hummels saying no, with Champions League football being a significant part of that decision - I mean, he's obviously settled in Germany, at a quality team, playing in the Champions League, etc... whereas moving is a risk, at a time when the national team is extremely strong and he'd surely be worried about slipping out of that, if not demonstrating his qualities in the premier competition. What reason does he have to move, if you take money out of the equation?

It's basically impossible to know what his priorities are, unless you're a mind reader... but to claim historical precedence completely disagrees is a tad silly...

I could see Hummels saying 'No' too but it isn't really going to be down to not playing in the CL for one year (which is all it is at the moment) it'll be more down to the better German players ending up at Munich. Similar in essence to the Spanish, Portugese and South American players ending up at Real / Barca eventually.

If you're a good player you're going to be confident in ones ability to push United back to the Champions League and fighting for the title especially with a better manager in charge. Non-Champions League for one season is different to yo-yo'ing in and out of it.

Regarding the historical precedence you only have to look relatively recently at James, Falcao and to a degree Moutinho (two great players - yes James was still a great player before the WC) moving to Monaco because a) they got paid well and b) they believed in the project there. Whether that was the right decision to move is irrelevant - they moved to a club just promoted from the second tier.

But then I don't expect to have a sensible debate with somebody who consistently refers to Man Utd as 'Man Yoo'

 

[Wayn0r]

Money talks. What about all the players that joined city during the revolution?

 

[Newbie007]

'James' wasnt at the level that Hummels & Vidal are at when he moved to Monaco so using him in the arguement of no CL football is a non starter. Falcao didnt have much of a say going from AM as from memory he had to go where his 3rd party ownership told him go.

Regardless the original point is valid, who is to say that Liverpool, arsenal and spurs dont buy 'big' and thus improve their 1st team's to the same degree that Hummals/Vidal etc would improve the man u 1st team.

Man City were overpaying for the tier below what Hummels/Vidal are currently. Not comparable.

 

[Rusty0611]

I wouldn't call a handful 'loads'...

It was an example not an extensive list.

'James' wasnt at the level that Hummels & Vidal are at when he moved to Monaco so using him in the arguement of no CL football is a non starter. Falcao didnt have much of a say going from AM as from memory he had to go where his 3rd party ownership told him go.

Yes he was. He was just not as well known. Of course Falcao had a say in it . It isn't slave labour.

 

[Rusty0611]

Because such a list doesn't exist..?

My point from earlier stands. I'm not going to go through the list of transfers historically to prove a point to a tedious troll on the forum.

Just because you keep stating fallacies doesn't mean I'm going to entertain them.

''

 

[Robbo]

Well we aren't even trying to buy Vidal, and we probably won't pay what it takes to even make Hummels a possible option, so...

I'm seriously hoping some new targets emerge when we're back from the tour. It's fair to say at the moment nobody has a clue what's going on.

 

[Rusty0611]

Probably a good thing after the 'begging' of Cesc last summer .

Man Utd have generally conducted their business quietly historically. I prefer that to the public pursuits to be honest.

 

[Newbie007]

Yes he was. He was just not as well known. Of course Falcao had a say in it . It isn't slave labour.

He really wasn't, both hummels and Vidal are talked about as being the best in the world in their position, or certainly top 3. James was no where near a list of top 5 when he moved to Monaco. Don't let the price tag fool u.

Re falcao I'm pretty sure it was widely reported he was told to go there.

Doesn't matter anyway, man u aren't getting either of them.

 

[Rusty0611]

He really wasn't, both hummels and Vidal are talked about as being the best in the world in their position, or certainly top 3. James was no where near a list of top 5 when he moved to Monaco. Don't let the price tag fool u.

Re falcao I'm pretty sure it was widely reported he was told to go there.

Doesn't matter anyway, man u aren't getting either of them.

He was.

And I'm not - I watched him a lot when he was at Porto. I watch a lot of European football so am in a better position than most to judge. He was approaching that level it was just the price being paid by Monaco which put off bigger clubs from him when he was still a relatively unproven talent. But the talent he showed at the WC and in his first season in Ligue 1 have been there prior to the switch to Monaco.

Again, he can be told to go there but it doesn't mean he has to at the end of the day. Atletico were happy to sell with the money offered and with Monaco spending a lot of money and building a new side I would imagine the project appealed to him. As well as them appealing to his bank balance .

I agree the signing of Hummels is extremely unlikely. Vidal is a lot more likely. I can see that happening personally. The problem in the market at the mo is the lack of quality CBs potentially available. You've got Hummels and Benatia as potential players to replace Vidic / Rio. Other than that you're at the next level of quality below. There isn't really that many quality CBs around at the mo. Thiago Silva, Chiellini, Ramos, Hummels and Benatia are probably the top tier ones... below that there's nothing really to write home about.

You don't NEED quality CBs to be a relatively successful side. Barca have done OK with only really Pique / Masch and Bayern have done OK with Dante, Badstuber, Boateng and Javi Martinez filling in. But where they exceed is the quality elsewhere. I don't think Man Utd are at the level as those two clubs elsewhere in their squad but just illustrating that it isn't the be all and end all to have a really quality defence.

 

[Cold Fusion]

Well we aren't even trying to buy Vidal, and we probably won't pay what it takes to even make Hummels a possible option, so...

I'm seriously hoping some new targets emerge when we're back from the tour. It's fair to say at the moment nobody has a clue what's going on.

Well Van Gaal appears to be sticking to what he said in regards to taking time to assess the existing squad before making signings. I think we all know there is plenty of players who are dead wood / not league winning quality.

If we were to challenge for the league this season we would need two new CB's and Hummels is an obvious tempting target. He's young (for a defender), He's proven and he might be available and if we can get him for £25m or less i think we've done good business.

I think signing Hummels and Vidal or players of similar stature would send a message to the top tier of the league that we mean business this season and I think Van Gaal can deliver.

On a side note I'm quite shocked that 'James' Rodriguez only scored 9 goals last season for Monaco, He was out of this world at the World Cup but I do think he might be a punt by Real Madrid

 

[omnomnom]

He was.

And I'm not - I watched him a lot when he was at Porto. I watch a lot of European football so am in a better position than most to judge. He was approaching that level it was just the price being paid by Monaco which put off bigger clubs from him when he was still a relatively unproven talent. But the talent he showed at the WC and in his first season in Ligue 1 have been there prior to the switch to Monaco.

Again, he can be told to go there but it doesn't mean he has to at the end of the day. Atletico were happy to sell with the money offered and with Monaco spending a lot of money and building a new side I would imagine the project appealed to him. As well as them appealing to his bank balance .

I agree the signing of Hummels is extremely unlikely. Vidal is a lot more likely. I can see that happening personally. The problem in the market at the mo is the lack of quality CBs potentially available. You've got Hummels and Benatia as potential players to replace Vidic / Rio. Other than that you're at the next level of quality below. There isn't really that many quality CBs around at the mo. Thiago Silva, Chiellini, Ramos, Hummels and Benatia are probably the top tier ones... below that there's nothing really to write home about.

You don't NEED quality CBs to be a relatively successful side. Barca have done OK with only really Pique / Masch and Bayern have done OK with Dante, Badstuber, Boateng and Javi Martinez filling in. But where they exceed is the quality elsewhere. I don't think Man Utd are at the level as those two clubs elsewhere in their squad but just illustrating that it isn't the be all and end all to have a really quality defence.

James didn't exactly set Lique 1 alight last season....not sure what "talent" you're referring to.

 

[bloodline76]

Regarding the historical precedence you only have to look relatively recently at James, Falcao and to a degree Moutinho (two great players - yes James was still a great player before the WC) moving to Monaco because a) they got paid well and b) they believed in the project there. Whether that was the right decision to move is irrelevant - they moved to a club just promoted from the second tier.

But then I don't expect to have a sensible debate with somebody who consistently refers to Man Utd as 'Man Yoo'

Hardly historical precedence. Apart from those, we had the chelski lot and city. Apart from those recent events historically it's not been done.

Anyway, I'm sure Utd will get them both and be challenging for the title soon, or at least for 4th spot which is I think nearer the mark.

Who do utd have as their back up CBs? If they are going to use three I would think they needed at least two quality replacements.

Verm looks more and more likely and I think he would do well as part of a back three.

 

[Rusty0611]

James didn't exactly set Lique 1 alight last season....not sure what "talent" you're referring to.

Not in pure goals and assists stats no but his general play was very good in what is essentially quite an average squad of players at Monaco. He was one of the better players in the league. IIRC he started the season on the right of midfield until Radamel got injured at which point he moved more central where he looks more natural. He scored a decent amount and provided a good number of assists. It wasn't as if the WC was the first time he'd shown what he was capable of .

 

[bloodline76]

You don't NEED quality CBs to be a relatively successful side. Barca have done OK with only really Pique / Masch and Bayern have done OK with Dante, Badstuber, Boateng and Javi Martinez filling in. But where they exceed is the quality elsewhere. I don't think Man Utd are at the level as those two clubs elsewhere in their squad but just illustrating that it isn't the be all and end all to have a really quality defence.

Like you said though, you need real quality in midfield and super stars up front to play that way.

Utd need a couple of CBs, three in midfield and I would get another forward to replace the fading Rooney.

 

[Rusty0611]

Hardly historical precedence. Apart from those, we had the chelski lot and city. Apart from those recent events historically it's not been done.

That IS historical precedence. You're saying it's not while listing out examples of the point I'm making. It's all a moot point because at the end of the day being out of the CL for one season (when United have been in it every year for however long) is not really an issue. If it becomes 2 or 3 years then it's more of a problem. More than that and you're looking at what happened to Liverpool perhaps.

Who do utd have as their back up CBs? If they are going to use three I would think they needed at least two quality replacements.

Verm looks more and more likely and I think he would do well as part of a back three.

I think if United are to play 3412 / 3 at the back in any form they definitely need 2 more CBs. If they are going to switch to a back 4 then one should be enough. But then when thinking about it you think of how much the 3 they currently have, have been injured... difficult one.

Jones especially seems really fragile.

 

[Robbo]

If we were to challenge for the league this season we would need two new CB's and Hummels is an obvious tempting target. He's young (for a defender), He's proven and he might be available and if we can get him for £25m or less i think we've done good business.

What makes you think we could get Hummels for £25m? Dortmund don't need to sell him and he's got a contract to 2017. Dortmund would be demanding £35m at the very least. I think if it turned out he was available, Barcelona and other clubs would all try and sign him too.

Hardly historical precedence. Apart from those, we had the chelski lot and city. Apart from those recent events historically it's not been done.

Anyway, I'm sure Utd will get them both and be challenging for the title soon, or at least for 4th spot which is I think nearer the mark.

Who do utd have as their back up CBs? If they are going to use three I would think they needed at least two quality replacements.

Verm looks more and more likely and I think he would do well as part of a back three.

Wenger just said Vermaelen might leave, and that he's injured at the moment. Hardly a great start. :/

He's the only player we've been linked with consistently, but unless we make Arsenal a really good offer, I don't think they'll sell us their club captain.

Barca have a pretty much confirmed interest in him, so he'll likely go there.

Like you said though, you need real quality in midfield and super stars up front to play that way.

Utd need a couple of CBs, three in midfield and I would get another forward to replace the fading Rooney.

I don't think Rooney is fading, but we'll see this season.

 

[bloodline76]

I don't think Rooney is fading, but we'll see this season.

If he wasn't why would they play him as a CM or a winger? If he was that good he would command his actual position up front surely.

I'm a bit bias as I have never really rated him for a while but I'm sure the new manager will give him a boost. Or he is up for contract renewal they he will be awesome until he signs