Caporegime
Unless he has his heart set on Arsenal or they are willing to spend big again he would go elsewhere. Martinez is a great player and would cost someone a lot of money.
*Transfer Window 2014/15 Season Rumours/Signings *AKA Man U fans listing every player under the Sun
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Caporegime
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I'd like him, but in general can't see it happening. Firstly as with a couple other Bayern players I think we'll see the higher ups get rid of Guardiola rather than continue alienating their best players and playing dodgy football.
It really shouldn't be ignored that after a HUGE amount of criticism, much of which started long before they got thrashed in the CL but has been amplified since, Guardiola's last game of the season(league) went back to starting Muller, starting Martinez as a DM, Swineface as a CM/ACM, Lahm at full back and Gotze(also complained of not starting, then scored a hattrick
). It was basically a team Guardiola has been unwilling to play all year yet after the criticism either was asked to play it or felt he should go back to when the team was better.
If the get rid of Guardiola then none of these guys will leave, if they back Guardiola but he promises to play more direct and play Martinez/Gotze/Muller more then who knows.
If Martinez was available I can see Real instantly jumping all over that with big money and huge wages as a Alonso replacement. They got mendi for $30 or $40mil, forget which, good player but hasn't set the world alight.
Khedira could become available if they went out and bought someone like Martinez though.
There is also Barca, who desperately need a CB, and lately their choice of getting in CB's been to buy DM's and play them at CB
Then again CHelsea could replace Ramires/Mikel and get Martinez, or be in for Khedira if he became available in the merry go round of players. Liverpool could absolutely do with him though Arsenal should be able to financially out muscle them. City, sell Garcia get Martinez and have another back of CB which they need, could work. Garcia isn't remotely good enough.
Utd.... needed a DM since Keane....... looking to spend big. With effectively every big money team in Spain/England being easily improved with a better DM then I think Arsenal rate very very far down the list for Martinez so effectively no chance of getting him.
It really shouldn't be ignored that after a HUGE amount of criticism, much of which started long before they got thrashed in the CL but has been amplified since, Guardiola's last game of the season(league) went back to starting Muller, starting Martinez as a DM, Swineface as a CM/ACM, Lahm at full back and Gotze(also complained of not starting, then scored a hattrick
). It was basically a team Guardiola has been unwilling to play all year yet after the criticism either was asked to play it or felt he should go back to when the team was better.If the get rid of Guardiola then none of these guys will leave, if they back Guardiola but he promises to play more direct and play Martinez/Gotze/Muller more then who knows.
If Martinez was available I can see Real instantly jumping all over that with big money and huge wages as a Alonso replacement. They got mendi for $30 or $40mil, forget which, good player but hasn't set the world alight.
Khedira could become available if they went out and bought someone like Martinez though.
There is also Barca, who desperately need a CB, and lately their choice of getting in CB's been to buy DM's and play them at CB
Then again CHelsea could replace Ramires/Mikel and get Martinez, or be in for Khedira if he became available in the merry go round of players. Liverpool could absolutely do with him though Arsenal should be able to financially out muscle them. City, sell Garcia get Martinez and have another back of CB which they need, could work. Garcia isn't remotely good enough.
Utd.... needed a DM since Keane....... looking to spend big. With effectively every big money team in Spain/England being easily improved with a better DM then I think Arsenal rate very very far down the list for Martinez so effectively no chance of getting him.
Caporegime
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Yup, the Guardiola effect, considering how many players he seems to have irked, the massive swing in CL fortune, thrashing a team considered the best 7-0, to being considered the best and then being thrashed 5-0 themselves....
The board, fans, media were grumbling with discontent before the Real Madrid games and before they won the league then started looking crap in the league. Since the CL loss that discontent became anger and went into overdrive.
I see Guardiola either walking or being pushed before Bayern let multiple players leave(well the best players, there are people who can leave).
As utd have scouted Carvalho at Sporting a huge amount this season, I would suspect (if anyone) Utd would go in this direction.
Also if Utd are going to go for anyone at BM surely it would be Kroos, rather than anyone else (and they are unlikely to sell two or more players to the same team in the same window, even if that team isnt a direct competitor)
Also if Utd are going to go for anyone at BM surely it would be Kroos, rather than anyone else (and they are unlikely to sell two or more players to the same team in the same window, even if that team isnt a direct competitor)
The reason Martinez would be good for us is that he can slot into defence easily for when we have 50 defenders injured.
Carvalho is looking like he will cost a fortune as well, if that's a similar price to what Martinez would cost then it's a no brainer really, Martinez plays in a better league and has more CL experience than Carvalho. Like I say, all depends on price though. Carvalho looks great but whether he could make the step up is another question, where as Martinez would slot straight in.
Carvalho is looking like he will cost a fortune as well, if that's a similar price to what Martinez would cost then it's a no brainer really, Martinez plays in a better league and has more CL experience than Carvalho. Like I say, all depends on price though. Carvalho looks great but whether he could make the step up is another question, where as Martinez would slot straight in.
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Utd would be making a mistake to get Kroos. Guardiola loves him, which is a bad sign, player who receives the ball and passes it sideways 90% of the time, occasionally thwacking a ball as hard as he can from 25 yards out and very occasionally having them go in.
I barely rate him frankly and a fairly large fee and 150-200k a week because he happens to be playing alongside some of the best players in the world who make him look much better. Almost as big of a mistake as giving Rooney 300k a week.
Utd need to stop overpaying/holding on to average players, Welbeck should have been sold for 5 million, not given almost 5mil a year. Not least when Kroos's best position is sitting behind the striker...... a role Utd have 74 players filling. He looks poor deep in central mid, he's not particularly good wide and his only real threat comes from sitting 25 yards out waiting for a pass that he can whack first time. Kroos might turn out okay but I can't see him being great at all and when you start spending 10's of millions and throwing 200k a week at decent players you get into trouble. At 100k a week and a reasonable fee he's worth a punt. But I've never seen a single performance out of him that made me think anything other than he's an okay player helped by some brilliant players around him. he never dominates games, rarely scores, takes LOADS of his long range shots to score only a few and is usually the weakest player on the pitch.
Kroos, the long range master, 2 goals in.... 51 shots in the league, one goal in 32 shots in the UCL. He just seems to get one of his very few long range goals, in the UCL at a knock out stage, against English opposition so over here we think he's great.
Carvalho, good or not, Martinez has proven himself at the highest level for several years. From what I can tell Carvalho has had basically one season with Sporting, in a not well regarded league and he's supposed to cost 37million. Martinez is only 3 years older(got another 8 years at least, maybe a decade or more) has won the CL cup, was part of the best team anyone has seen in quite some time, is versatile, strong, big and actually great as a defensive midfielder and an pretty decent CB. He's played around 200 more senior games than Carvalho and all in much much stronger leagues and competitions.
As gimp says, Martinez vs Carvalho is a complete no brainer, one IS a top notch player, one could be or might not be, not tested in any serious league and with significantly less experience.
I barely rate him frankly and a fairly large fee and 150-200k a week because he happens to be playing alongside some of the best players in the world who make him look much better. Almost as big of a mistake as giving Rooney 300k a week.
Utd need to stop overpaying/holding on to average players, Welbeck should have been sold for 5 million, not given almost 5mil a year. Not least when Kroos's best position is sitting behind the striker...... a role Utd have 74 players filling. He looks poor deep in central mid, he's not particularly good wide and his only real threat comes from sitting 25 yards out waiting for a pass that he can whack first time. Kroos might turn out okay but I can't see him being great at all and when you start spending 10's of millions and throwing 200k a week at decent players you get into trouble. At 100k a week and a reasonable fee he's worth a punt. But I've never seen a single performance out of him that made me think anything other than he's an okay player helped by some brilliant players around him. he never dominates games, rarely scores, takes LOADS of his long range shots to score only a few and is usually the weakest player on the pitch.
Kroos, the long range master, 2 goals in.... 51 shots in the league, one goal in 32 shots in the UCL. He just seems to get one of his very few long range goals, in the UCL at a knock out stage, against English opposition so over here we think he's great.
Carvalho, good or not, Martinez has proven himself at the highest level for several years. From what I can tell Carvalho has had basically one season with Sporting, in a not well regarded league and he's supposed to cost 37million. Martinez is only 3 years older(got another 8 years at least, maybe a decade or more) has won the CL cup, was part of the best team anyone has seen in quite some time, is versatile, strong, big and actually great as a defensive midfielder and an pretty decent CB. He's played around 200 more senior games than Carvalho and all in much much stronger leagues and competitions.
As gimp says, Martinez vs Carvalho is a complete no brainer, one IS a top notch player, one could be or might not be, not tested in any serious league and with significantly less experience.
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But its also not certain that any single player will adapt to the EPL (which of course works against both Martinez and Carvalho)
If it was a choice between Kroos and Martinez (even with the adaptability of the latter) I would still choose Kroos
Unless Martinez is an luxury buy - we need midfileders anyway, its not like we are overstocked in that area after all lol
edit - IF Utd dont go for Kroos for one reason or another then fair enough, I just cant see BM agreeing to sell both to the same club
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Caporegime
I have a strange feeling Suarez will leave in the Summer, don't think anything he says to the media can be trusted, if a club like Real make a massive bid for him he'll want to go imo. Ronaldo - Suarez - Bale 
I never mentioned Kroos, I was comparing Carvalho and Martinez.
Caporegime
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More strange is that he wants another number 10 on another huge wage over a true DM, something the team has lacked since frankly, Keane(a quality one at least). The utd squad needs a DM many many many times more than another lightweight number 10.
Rooney, Mata, Kagawa and.. lol, Fellaini all prefer the withdrawn striker area of the pitch and so does Kroos, but Frank thinks a 15th attacking central mid would be better than one of the best DM's around.... okay.
Rooney, Mata, Kagawa and.. lol, Fellaini all prefer the withdrawn striker area of the pitch and so does Kroos, but Frank thinks a 15th attacking central mid would be better than one of the best DM's around.... okay.
who is 'he' ??
Caporegime
We need someone like Martinez more than we need someone like Kroos but Kroos would fulfil the role Carrick is currently butchering. As far as I am concerned, we need the following in the summer.
Need:
2 proper CM to sit in front of the defence as we have plenty of players for the no. 10 role.
1 Winger preferably right wing
1 Left back
1 Centre back
Nice to have:
1 Right back
We have plenty of striking options unless both Welbeck and Hernandez leave. Januzaj and a few others can play on the left or right wings if required.
I would like to see the following leave:
Carrick, Fletcher, Young, Valencia, Cleverley
Need:
2 proper CM to sit in front of the defence as we have plenty of players for the no. 10 role.
1 Winger preferably right wing
1 Left back
1 Centre back
Nice to have:
1 Right back
We have plenty of striking options unless both Welbeck and Hernandez leave. Januzaj and a few others can play on the left or right wings if required.
I would like to see the following leave:
Carrick, Fletcher, Young, Valencia, Cleverley
Caporegime
The problem with that list is how does it affect our home grown numbers?
I realise that, but you also never commented on the liklihood of BM sellung both lol, and in which case which you would prefer
And yes no reason at all Kroos cant be a replacement for Carrick / Fletcher, nothing at all to do with No10 role
Home grown players.... Wilson, Lawrence, Carrick, Smalling, Jones, Evans,, Rafael, Januzaj ( maybe not quite yet), Rooney, Welbeck, Keane and Amos
Think we should be ok ( by al means get rid of fletcher, Young, Nani, Valencia and Cleverley, but dont think MC should be got rid of yet imo)
I think most of those should count as homegrown ( even though some are obviously not British). One thing Im not sre about though is it only U21 home grown players that dont count towards squad size of 25? Januzaj for example may be young enough but may not have been with us long enough yet to count.
Edit Januzaj joined a lot further ago than I thought (2005) so he will count as homegrown
Eg amos, Welbeck, Rooney, Rafael, Evans, Jones,Smalling, Carrick could be the 8 named players for next season, with all the others potentially being "Un named" suppliments to the sqaud beimg u21s
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Caporegime
There must be a rule that says homegrown players must be footballers so I assumed Cleverley and Young wouldn't be considered homegrown anyway.
I realise that, but you also never commented on the liklihood of BM sellung both lol, and in which case which you would prefer
And yes no reason at all Kroos cant be a replacement for Carrick / Fletcher, nothing at all to do with No10 role
If they're selling both, why not go for both.
I wouldn't play Kroos as a DM either, I'd have Martinez as the DM and Kroos as the box to box (in a 2 man midfield of course)
Just out of interest I would guess if that were to happen that would be the 1st time in absolutely donkey's years that one major team has sold two players to another major team in the same window
Soldato
100% guaranteed Arsenal are going to sign him now.drunkenmaster said:
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