Associate
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Turkey Grand Prix 2010, Istanbul Park - Race 7/19
- Thread starter Glaucus
- Start date
I thought it was the Silver team that wanted him in a few years?
Mercedes do want Vettel, however, if RedBull can continue to provide a competitive car, why would he want to leave RedBull?
It is upto Mercedes to come up with a competitive package. If and when this happens, then Vettel will probably be off to Mercedes, until then, RedBull is the car that all drivers in F1 would like to be in.
Well if the BBC was right in what they said in their forum.
Webber was told to turn his engine down and Vettel to turn his engine up.
Says it all really. RB FAIL.
EDIT= On the bbc vettel says "I was quicker. I dived down the inside. I had the corner." Hmmm No you did not.
Then vettel says ""I was just trying to get the braking point and suddenly I lost the car. You can see we touched."
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Apart from the Webber/Vettel crash, I found it a bit processional tbh.
I thought Jenson "ever the opportunist" Button was lucky he didn't suffer the same fate too. Cheeky stuff trying to overtake when under fuel saving orders, but hey ho, glad they both brought it home safely.
Webber is untouchable when it comes to shunts. You can bet if he's involved in a shunt, he'll carry on while the other driver gets the long walk back. Some weird voodoo going on in that cockpit
Jenson would just be returning the favour when Hamilton kept coming at him after they were told to conserve the cars for the last 1-2.
Seriously If hamilton had done the same to Jenson everyone would say what a predator he is and what a huge will to win at any costs blah blah blah.
People are assuming that conserve fuel means don't race each other, unless anyone on here actually has any knowledge of the rules which mclaren race under the rest is pure speculation.
Seems odd to me that Jenson was told to conserve fuel from lap 20? Was Hamilton? Even if they both were then does the no racing imaginary ruling everyone seems to have come up with apply on lap 20?
Until one of them says that means no racing it's idle speculation.
Man of Honour
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Touched? lol, bit of an understatement - and no, he certainly did not have the corner. I used to like Vettel, but after seeing the last few races I think he really needs to grow up. Reminds me of when he was side-by-side with Hamilton in the pit lane, and Vettel nearly pushed Hamilton into the air guns. Vettel needs to get a grip at the moment.
Well thats clever. Your point will never be proved or disproved, because McLaren can never release information which suggests they have a code words for team-orders, as you very well know that team orders are now banned.
If they were to publicly announce that they are issuing team-orders, they would almost certainly be looking at some form of ban/punishment.
The only way for us to really know the deal about their fuel is just how much fuel did Button have left in his car. Was he marginal (as in about to run out and unable to complete his warm down lap), or was he carrying enough fuel to allow him to complete the race, while running a rich mixture? Unforuntunately, we will never get to know the real answers, unless an "insider" leaks information regarding the true fuel status in Button's car.
Associate
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Good race today, obviously helped by some stupidity on Red Bulls part.
Seems that both Red Bull and McLaren used more fuel than expected in racing each other (and were able to pull out a 30 second margin as a result), and it was the differing approaches to fuel saving that brought about the challenges.
Webber leading the race had to go into fuel saving earlier, and wasn't told Vettel was still going full out - leading to him catching on the straight due to more power/better top speed, and eventually their coming together.
If it was really team orders/preferential treatment for Vettel rather than both making the most of the situation then it would be a pretty poor showing by Red Bull.
With the McLarens they both were looking to conserve fuel from early on, but took different approaches - Jenson took to coming off the throttle a little earlier with less breaking to marginally improve fuel consumption, wheras Lewis given a lap time target was looking to that to save fuel rather than being told continuously to save a little more fuel. This lead to Jenson catching up with Lewis and being surpised at him going quite as slow through turn 8 and gifting him a chance of an overtake. Hamilton responds to the overtake and gets past again, before both are told to continue saving fuel or it could get marginal, hense holding station.
Not really a case of Button being cheeky, but doing what he should have in the situation - the issue would be whether Lewis was given the correct target for fuel saving considering Jenson was closing on him.
But on race pace I thought Button was very close to Lewis, and was holding station a second or two back to preserve his tyres and Lewis pushed on fighting the Red Bulls hoping they'd all wear their tyres a little too much and give him a chance towards the end of the race. Of course it didn't quite pan out that way - but I can't see why people are saying Button shouldn't have tried for the win - if the roles were reversed you can be sure Lewis would have had a shot (just look back 3 races).
Seems that both Red Bull and McLaren used more fuel than expected in racing each other (and were able to pull out a 30 second margin as a result), and it was the differing approaches to fuel saving that brought about the challenges.
Webber leading the race had to go into fuel saving earlier, and wasn't told Vettel was still going full out - leading to him catching on the straight due to more power/better top speed, and eventually their coming together.
If it was really team orders/preferential treatment for Vettel rather than both making the most of the situation then it would be a pretty poor showing by Red Bull.
With the McLarens they both were looking to conserve fuel from early on, but took different approaches - Jenson took to coming off the throttle a little earlier with less breaking to marginally improve fuel consumption, wheras Lewis given a lap time target was looking to that to save fuel rather than being told continuously to save a little more fuel. This lead to Jenson catching up with Lewis and being surpised at him going quite as slow through turn 8 and gifting him a chance of an overtake. Hamilton responds to the overtake and gets past again, before both are told to continue saving fuel or it could get marginal, hense holding station.
Not really a case of Button being cheeky, but doing what he should have in the situation - the issue would be whether Lewis was given the correct target for fuel saving considering Jenson was closing on him.
But on race pace I thought Button was very close to Lewis, and was holding station a second or two back to preserve his tyres and Lewis pushed on fighting the Red Bulls hoping they'd all wear their tyres a little too much and give him a chance towards the end of the race. Of course it didn't quite pan out that way - but I can't see why people are saying Button shouldn't have tried for the win - if the roles were reversed you can be sure Lewis would have had a shot (just look back 3 races).
What is more interesting is that Whitmarsh jetted straight out. Didn't hang around to celebrate LH's first win of the year. It's not the first time he's gave the impression this year of supporting JB over LH
mountain out of molehill imo - bbc were saying all afternoon (after the race) how hard Istanbul is to get away from
No proof at all that he wouldnt have done the same for JB (at the same race) had the tables been turned.
while vettel was ahead it was by no means far enough for him to presume he had the corner.
I wouldn't be surprised to a fia investigation into this as it looks a bit like team orders to me. even mark isnt happy telling interviewers to dig more-
''Q. Is there any reason why he (Vettel) had a jump on you on that particular lap?
MW: Hmm. Maybe.
Q. Did you come out of the previous corner a bit slower on that lap?
MW: Hmm. You guys need to dig more, somewhere else.''
Those are very strange answers.
Could it be that RedBull feel that they have to back one driver over another? Could the decision have been made and now RedBull are giving their full backing to Vettel?
or he is an incredible racing driver to still be challanging for the lead with 5 laps to go without going full tilt for 38 laps!!!
Man of Honour
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Why wouldn't they? Webber will be leaving soon and they will want to hold onto Vettel. If they don't stand by Vettel they might lose him to a red or silver team. I don't think Webber is getting all the support he should be getting from them.
Associate
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It was a great race and I'm glad Vettel and Button decided to have a go rather than bringing the cars home for the team. That's called racing and yes, occasionally cars will touch. But watching Senna and Prost taking each other out was the spirit of the sport, each driver going at it, and seeing it again today really livened up the race for me.
It's a little frustrating to hear the drivers and principles using political talk about what the hell really went on - in fact it puts me off the sport. Just tell us what went on. That flippin "no team orders rule" has them all tip-toeing around the issue of what each driver was told during the race.
Were Hammo and Button told to hold station using the code save fuel?
Did Vettel have his engine dialed up higher when Mark was told to dial his down?
Both Hammo and Mark hinted that there was "confusion" and "digging" to be resolved and details to be found out about both incidents. Something as someone said above, we are unlikely to be told about unless some reporter manages to get a scoop.
It's a little frustrating to hear the drivers and principles using political talk about what the hell really went on - in fact it puts me off the sport. Just tell us what went on. That flippin "no team orders rule" has them all tip-toeing around the issue of what each driver was told during the race.
Were Hammo and Button told to hold station using the code save fuel?
Did Vettel have his engine dialed up higher when Mark was told to dial his down?
Both Hammo and Mark hinted that there was "confusion" and "digging" to be resolved and details to be found out about both incidents. Something as someone said above, we are unlikely to be told about unless some reporter manages to get a scoop.
What an awesome fail!!!!
JB was matching LH's pace all the way (and getting fastest laps on a number of occasions in the mid 30's) while still conserving fuel before LH was first asked to
Certainly puts a completely different complexion on your view dont ya think!!!
I don't see how anyone can think it was Mark's fault in the slightest? Maybe it was his fault for being on the track?
He left the gap on the left, but he is perfectly within his rights (both regulations wise and racing sportsmanship wise) to maintain his line to the corner. He wasn't squeezing the faster Vettel off, just maintaining his line. All Vettel had to do was keep his wits and cover the inside of the corner nicely, he could have hung Mark out. Instead, he assumed Mark would return to the racing line immediately once Vettel had edged ahead in order to get the drop on the entrance to that corner. Vettel's assumption cost him the race, and his only saving grace is it didn't cost Mark his.
He left the gap on the left, but he is perfectly within his rights (both regulations wise and racing sportsmanship wise) to maintain his line to the corner. He wasn't squeezing the faster Vettel off, just maintaining his line. All Vettel had to do was keep his wits and cover the inside of the corner nicely, he could have hung Mark out. Instead, he assumed Mark would return to the racing line immediately once Vettel had edged ahead in order to get the drop on the entrance to that corner. Vettel's assumption cost him the race, and his only saving grace is it didn't cost Mark his.
Don't worry, they will keep faulting JB
laughs - seems like it
There have big big rumours that Kimi has signed for Red Bull already for next year. Would Red Bull really prefer him to win the title over seb and then get given the push for a past it drunk?
Something fishy has gone on 'for sure' with the talk of engines being turned down and sebs up.
It's pretty dirty if that turns out to be the case.