Turkey Grand Prix 2010, Istanbul Park - Race 7/19

I mean this light heartedly, I care not for the detail of why the drivers had different fuel saving requirements, it is obvious there where many many reasons this occurs, some obvious, some not so obvious, the point was, it's normal for drivers to have a difference, so when assessing the claims of conspiracy at RB, there is at least some reasoning behind why Seb/Mark would legitimately get in the inevitable situation where one would have more fuel and therefore more speed then the other, hence why cry of foul play needs slightly tempering.

Oh, and I'm flattered you keep picking up on my posts, but give up, I already like JB, I just don't love him blindly.. :)

It is OK to like more then 1 driver you know.. (or console for that matter ;))

:)

just thought it was interesting thats all (and trying to back up my thoughts with observations)
 
Well that pretty much guarentees Kimi isn't returning to F1.

Red Bull full
Macca full
Merc full
Ferrari highly unlikely.

None of the others are worth worrying about. Unusual really that so many top teams don't have seats so decentish drivers like Kubica have nowhere to go except fester as Renault.
 
So true. Both McLaren drivers could've taken eachother off, if they had the "Thou Shall Not Yield" attitude of Webber and Vettel.

Yes, Vettel should not have moved into Webber so abruptly like he did. But Webber had plenty of room to his right and when he saw Vettel moving into him, he should've moved a little to the right. It's almost as if Webber had closed his eyes and thought to himself, "The car on my left is a figment of my imagination and does not actually exist."

Webber has to take his share of the blame.

That's tosh - MW had no time to react to Sebs swerve. It was an overly agressive and quite deliberate move that backfired. Seb has a history of attempting to 'scare' other drivers with swerves - he got it wrong and paid for it. MW was racing, Seb was attempting to bully.
 
Another point that annoys me this year is the crap about saving fuel, why don't they just fill up the cars with enough fuel to go 100% for the full race, it can't make that big of a difference in laptimes, or does it?

It does, because filling the tank affects so many other things on the car.
1) The heavier the tank, the higher the tyre wear.
2) The more fuel, the lower the ride height, so you either have to run too low during high fuel laps, and damage the underside, or increase the ride height, and run very high during low fuel laps and qually.
 
Another point that annoys me this year is the crap about saving fuel, why don't they just fill up the cars with enough fuel to go 100% for the full race, it can't make that big of a difference in laptimes, or does it?

Isn't it every Kilo of fuel = 0.1s/lap , And there is certainly a very large difference in lap time between start/end as the fuels going down, so possibly it's the single most important variable they have to play with...
 
Another point that annoys me this year is the crap about saving fuel, why don't they just fill up the cars with enough fuel to go 100% for the full race, it can't make that big of a difference in laptimes, or does it?

It's in a article on the bbc, it does indeed make that much difference, 5to lap times. the idea is to set a fast pace early on to gain your position, then turn the engine down. I'll see if I can dig it out, Sure someone posted it earlier.
 
Heres a question:

RedBull clearly support Vettel and he is there No.1 driver. RedBull feel that Webber should've yielded. We are saying this because RedBull are biased in favour of Vettel. There seems no doubt about that.

So, why, if Vettel was completely at fault, did the Stewards/FIA not get involved, bearing in mind that (according to some of you) Vettel was 100% at fault and that this was definitely not a racing incident where both drivers are at fault?
 
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8714410.stm

One trigger for the problems is that the teams are starting races this year knowing that at some point they must save fuel to get to the finish.

It sounds crazy but it costs a 10th of a second a lap to carry a lap's worth of fuel. In the 58-lap Turkish Grand Prix, that is equivalent to 5.8 seconds.

When we saw the two Red Bulls and the two McLarens all circulating within a total of 2.2 seconds after 40 laps yesterday you can see the relevance.

So the teams under-fill their cars as much as they dare so they are as fast as possible in the crucial early part of the race leading up to the pit stops, knowing they can back the engines off to save fuel when they have secured their track position later on.
 
Do me a favour, sunama. Look at it again.

Webber is travelling on a consistent trajectory. Vettel turned to the right despite being in no way clear of Webber. He was trying to bully him into backing off and surrendering the lead, and spectacularly misjudged it.

was he not expecting webber to move over as well, to the right to take the outside lane through the corner ?

difficult to tell from those photos at what point the drivers start moving over to the right for the upcomming corner.
 
So, why, if Vettel was completely at fault, did the Stewards/FIA not get involved, bearing in mind that (according to some of you) Vettel was 100% at fault and that this was definitely not a racing incident where both drivers are at fault?

Probably because it was a team issue, if it had been another teams driver I have no doubt he would have probably got a grid penalty next race.

BTW it's probably already mentioned but Vettel did the same thing against Hamilton in the China pit lane incident, he seems unable to race without trying to put people into walls...

 
One trigger for the problems is that the teams are starting races this year knowing that at some point they must save fuel to get to the finish.

It sounds crazy but it costs a 10th of a second a lap to carry a lap's worth of fuel. In the 58-lap Turkish Grand Prix, that is equivalent to 5.8 seconds.

When we saw the two Red Bulls and the two McLarens all circulating within a total of 2.2 seconds after 40 laps yesterday you can see the relevance.

So the teams under-fill their cars as much as they dare so they are as fast as possible in the crucial early part of the race leading up to the pit stops, knowing they can back the engines off to save fuel when they have secured their track position later on.
So the difference is 6 seconds, but they have to slow down later on that can cost seconds or even more than the 6 seconds gained.

And doing it this way means the driver cannot go full speed later on in the race if needed, it just feels like it's not worth the hassle for 6 seconds, and 6 seconds isn't all that much, you can even lose a couple of seconds after the pistop when you need to wait for another car going past.
 
Vettel could have braked and not completed the overtake, there is no blame for Webber at all

Vettel should not have braked at all, he had such a speed advantage he was storming by, it was Vettels rear wheel that caught webbers front, such was the overlap, and they wheren't even quite at the corner, basically, it was Vettels corner, he would arrive their first, all MW could have possibly done is tried to defend around the outside (same line Jenson took against Lewis), but if Vettel wanted to be aggressive, having his nose well and truly in front meant he could have closed the door by apexing early, running wide and squeezing webber off the track, which he would have been entitled to do..

Webber choose an action that although technically valid was IMO very poor indeed..

Technically correct, logically daft.. IMO.. :)
 
To be honest if Vettel had such an advantage he could have gone right and taken Webber on the outside and cut back across for the corner, as he was just far enough ahead when they hit to get into the corner first, would have been risky and might not have come off, but its no where near as stupid as going the hard way and then trying VERY badly to bully his team mate....

I think the FIA (or stewards) need to step in soon to get Vettel to basically start playing fair (ie not trying to copy MS who has been handed all sorts of penalties over the years for unsportsmanly driving...). Looking back at China he was very over the top towards hammy in the pits and the crash last week was entirely avoidable if he concentrated on winning the corner/race instead of trying to put Webber down

And GUH! Still waiting for that Vettel apology....
 
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Webber choose an action that although technically valid was IMO very poor indeed..
So someone that rams his car into the sidepod of the other car at 200mph without giving him time to react is correct and the driver that stays on the line he was driving the whole straight and does nothing illegal is wrong :confused:

You said it yourself, Vettel should have waited for the corner, take the inside line, go wide and at that point force Webber to slow down, but I guess he didn't fancy braking on the inside of the corner on the marbles, well that's though for him.

I also think that the stewards should give Vettel a warning, it doesn't matter that they are teammates, this is just outright dangerous.
 
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