Type R and VTEC owners

Will · 26 Nov 2012 at 11:29

Andrew Moore said:
This is why a 200bhp hot hatch that laps in 2minutes of track X may only be 10seconds slower than a 500bhp super car.

Double the BHP doesn't mean double the speed and half the track times. If that was the case a Veyron would lap the Nuremburg ring in about 1minutes 25seconds...

Of course you are correct in what you say, but the claims from TDI North are still a bit strange...it doesn't say much about their ability to build a good track car for a start!

Think about what they are saying...there 450bhp dedicated 'Time Attack' track car as slow as a 260bhp car? :confused:

Either there's a driver issue or their track car setup is utterly utterly rubbish, the FN2 chassis must be light years ahead to make up for that sort of power difference on track (especially assuming by 'Time Attack' car they mean a properly stripped, lightweight, caged, track prepped car) in order to get equal laptimes, but accepted wisdom of EP3 vs FN2 suggests the opposite is true. Strikes me the guy at TDI who said that just wants to beat down on EP3 owners bleating about independent rear suspension.

Andrew Moore · 26 Nov 2012 at 11:29

MilanoChris said:
EP3 vs FN2 argument can go on all day.

Fact is, DC5 is in a different league to them both, then there's the FD2 to consider.

I love what people are finding with the FD2 over an EP3 or FN2 but the cost makes me cringe

For the money there are so many other alternatives that you could consider so its a shame they arent a little cheaper and that they never brought the car to the UK as I would imagine it would have done reasonably well for those looking for a type R for what it is and should be rather than what the UK gets offered. (Not that I am complaining about my FN2)

Recently Grantham Honda had a 1991/3 NSX Manual with full service history for £18,995. Needless to say it was gone near as soon as it went up for sale but the jump from an FD2 to an NSX I should imagine is night and day. Heres hoping a few more pop up at that price as the usual £27,500+ is mind blowing!

ChrisD. · 26 Nov 2012 at 11:30

Once I'm in a position to buy a car for £20000 a Honda won't even be an option.

ChrisD. · 26 Nov 2012 at 11:31

I'd have an FD2 though. Ever time I look at Evo 9's I always find myself looking at whichever FD2's are for sale.

ci_newman · 26 Nov 2012 at 11:36

I keep dreaming of an FD2 too but its rarity, high buy price and apparent poor ability to sell them at the end of ownership is a little bit off-putting.

Jonnycoupe · 26 Nov 2012 at 11:38

ci_newman said:
I keep dreaming of an FD2 too but its rarity, high buy price and apparent poor ability to sell them at the end of ownership is a little bit off-putting.

Should give a clue to what the market thinks should happen to the prices I guess, looks like they will be dropping soon much to the pain of the current owners but to the opportunity of potential buyers.

Andrew Moore · 26 Nov 2012 at 11:38

Will said:
Of course you are correct in what you say, but the claims from TDI North are still a bit strange...it doesn't say much about their ability to build a good track car for a start!

Think about what they are saying...there 450bhp dedicated 'Time Attack' track car as slow as a 260bhp car?

Either there's a driver issue or their track car setup is utterly utterly rubbish, the FN2 chassis must be light years ahead to make up for that sort of power difference on track, but accepted wisdom of EP3 vs FN2 suggests the opposite is true.

Look at the GT3 and the GT2 Porsche 911s.. If one does 1:30 the other will do 1:28/9. Theres jack all in it for such a power increase which leaves the only variable the way the chassis works which would mean the chassis on the 911 is either truly superb or not as good as the GT2s engine. As tdi have said the torsion bar (which is pretty awful from a technical point of view) on the FN2 will remain solid on a flat/smooth track as its fixed so it should make little to no difference. Depending on the set-up it could even potentially help as it would act in a similar way to a sway/roll bar. Track width vs track length also plays a good part in how a car handles. The track length is very similar but the width on the FN2 is greater making the length to width ratio beneficial for the FN2.

I would assume both drivers are of a similar skill set so perhaps the FN2 was slightly better set for the corner types on the given track where by the additional power of the EP3 would play little difference.

Muffin` · 26 Nov 2012 at 11:39

Andrew Moore said:
Lol! Complete none existent understanding of physics and the effects of moving mass.

Once a 1ltr Corsa is moving and the momentum is there (is at its speed) it wont be much slower than a car with twice the power around your average track.

This is why a 200bhp hot hatch that laps in 2minutes of track X may only be 10seconds slower than a 500bhp super car.

Double the BHP doesn't mean double the speed and half the track times. If that was the case a Veyron would lap the Nuremburg ring in about 1minutes 25seconds...

TDi's claim is clearly a bit bollcks! If not then the FN2 is some unknown dark horse

ChrisD. · 26 Nov 2012 at 11:43

ci_newman said:
I keep dreaming of an FD2 too but its rarity, high buy price and apparent poor ability to sell them at the end of ownership is a little bit off-putting.

Near enough the same situation the DC5 was in 2002-2005 ish before they became mass imports. I paid good money for my DC5, some £14000 or so IIRC. I do know that FD2's are selling for a lot less than their list price though, I think it's the owners that are trying to grasp onto some of their cash when in reality they're worth much less. It's what happens with cars that are rare and in a niche market though.

rjk · 26 Nov 2012 at 11:52

-Ad- said:
Not a fan of it

really Ad? I never got that impression

Will said:
Strikes me the guy at TDI who said that just wants to beat down on EP3 owners bleating about independent rear suspension.

my thoughts on the matter exactly.

bleat bleat

ci_newman said:
I keep dreaming of an FD2 too but its rarity, high buy price and apparent poor ability to sell them at the end of ownership is a little bit off-putting.

as much as I agree, and would have an FD2 in a snap. The fact remains, as much as I think an FD2 would be immense, they are the same money as a sorted EvoX. which is arguably a much better car in many respects.

Andrew Moore said:
words about cars

I would imagine that their FN2 is not running 'Accelera' tyres too mate.

NathWraith · 26 Nov 2012 at 11:54

Look how good the FN2 is boys

rjk · 26 Nov 2012 at 11:54

because Hybrid

NathWraith · 26 Nov 2012 at 11:55

rjkoneill said:
because Hybrid

150BHP and only 2 glaciers melted during it's time on track as opposed to 16 for the type R

TaKeN · 26 Nov 2012 at 12:37

NathWraith said:
Look how good the FN2 is boys

Tuned CR-Z by Spoon vs Standard FN2? :confused:

The suspension on the FN2 is **** from the factory, TDi north do a great job of setting them up. Night and Day difference according to the owners on the forums,

I'll let you know once mine has been done.

NathWraith · 26 Nov 2012 at 12:50

TaKeN said:
Tuned CR-Z by Spoon vs Standard FN2?

The suspension on the FN2 is **** from the factory, TDi north do a great job of setting them up. Night and Day difference according to the owners on the forums,

I'll let you know once mine has been done.

just thought it was impressive for a hybrid 150bhp car to be a racing inspired type R around a track!

TaKeN · 26 Nov 2012 at 12:54

But the FN2 has 200 HP! It should be miles quicker

Oh wait...

NathWraith · 26 Nov 2012 at 13:10

TaKeN said:
But the FN2 has 200 HP! It should be miles quicker

Oh wait...

That's not the point I am making. However 25% more power should make a big difference!

Was more talking about the handling aspects and that the CR-Z has the potential to be quite a weapon!

-Ad- · 26 Nov 2012 at 13:11

Andrew Moore said:
Lol! Complete none existent understanding of physics and the effects of moving mass.

Once a 1ltr Corsa is moving and the momentum is there (is at its speed) it wont be much slower than a car with twice the power around your average track.

This is why a 200bhp hot hatch that laps in 2minutes of track X may only be 10seconds slower than a 500bhp super car.

Double the BHP doesn't mean double the speed and half the track times. If that was the case a Veyron would lap the Nuremburg ring in about 1minutes 25seconds...

Muffin` said:
TDi's claim is clearly a bit bollcks! If not then the FN2 is some unknown dark horse

What I said in another way^^^

Andrew clearly misunderstood my mick taking.

Gibbo · 26 Nov 2012 at 13:17

NathWraith said:
That's not the point I am making. However 25% more power should make a big difference!

Was more talking about the handling aspects and that the CR-Z has the potential to be quite a weapon!

On a track its all about weight. This is why Saxo's were blitzing past your 340BHP Supra, they could do corners and weighed no more than a shoe box.

A track focused car should be light, semi/full slicks and of course RWD, but 2WD and 4WD offerings can be just as quick, just a different driving style and handling characteristics.

Jonnycoupe · 26 Nov 2012 at 13:19

Have spoon taken a lot of weight out teh CRZ with carbon this and that?

Its the same thing with the Mustangs and the live axle. Their true deficiancies are more obvious on the road than a smooth track.

The way torsion beam cars squat with the handbrake is annoying aswell.