Type R and VTEC owners

Raymond Lin said:
Will, without seeing that car in person, based on just what i described, if you were making an offer, what would your opening offer be?

Just want a starting point.
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I'd offer £8k as a starting point and see what they say. Having a trade in puts you in a far worse negotiating position than a cash only sale though, they'll want to make a nice margin on the car they sell to you, lest they struggle to offload your part-ex vehicle or bang it through an auction at bottom book price...

Ultimately cost to change is the only thing you should look at and try to negotiate around, its the only real figure you should be interested in. Many dealers will start to obfuscate, saying they can't knock any off the car you are buying, as they are already offering too much for your part ex....etc. Others will give you a crap trade in price, but be willing to knock £500 off your car.

They may be able to do more on extras (e.g. if you wanted a service plan, rubber boot protector, roof rack or something else to go with your new purchase).

Born_2_Kill_83 said:
Sorry to hear about that, bet your gutted!

From what Ive read the Flashpro doesnt give anymore power as you say it adjusts the vtec engagement. Can you explain the Group M map to me as I've seen this floating around a bit?
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Yeah I was proper gutted. Starting to sink in a bit more now I've started selling off some of the bits I was due to fit :(

A Flashpro map on a relatively standard car is unlikely to give much top end power but it can sharpen up the throttle response even more, and give a nice mid range torque boost.

The flashpro is an awesome device, its more advanced than some of these OBD remap devices, it has full datalogging functionality, can hold multiple maps, and can be adjusted for a huge range of mods including forced induction, cams, basically it will allow you to do pretty much anything you'd want to as it can adjust so many factors on the stock ECU. Its blood expensive but its far more capable than something like a Superchips bluefin handset.

The 'Group N' map everybody talks about is a basic, safe, calibration that comes with the handsets standard software. It can be run on a car with mild mods (cat back exhaust/intake), or a stock car, without issue, it lowers the Vtec engagement point to 3800rpm rather than 5800rpm and gives it a bit more grunt low down through this and slightly altered cam angles.

Its nowhere near as good as a custom map (having had both a well optimised custom map, and the Group N map, on my car at various points), but it allows you to get a safe performance benefit from buying a Flashpro immediately, rather than having a pay for a custom map.

There are two ways to get a custom map done with Flashpro too:

1) Conventional 'dyno' tuning (on a rolling road) - Around £250-£350 depending on where you go.

2) 'E-tuning' - Essentially mapping the car based on road driving, using the datalog function, usually cheaper and most people rate it as better if you use a good tuner like VitViper of CivRSA, although you will use a load of fuel. It goes like this:

Tuner guy emails you a base map based upon mods..
Load map to car using flashpro handset..
Drive around for around 20-30 minutes and use datalogging...including a power pull (e.g. your tuner will ask you to do a single 3rd gear pull from 2000rpm to the limiter, lots of straight road and little traffic required for that :D)
Email datalog to tuner to fine tune...
Tuner sends you slightly revised map...
Rinse repeat...getting better (faster/smoother to drive) each time

Hope this helps! Happy to answer any more flashpro questions, its a cool bit of kit really :)
 
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Raymond Lin said:
Thanks, oh, I also notice there was a iPod connection cable inside that compartment by the number, are these standard on all Type R?

One thing I do think I am a fan of is where the cup holders are between the seats, right between the arm rest and gear. I would imagine if you have a tall bottle the drink would get in the way.
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Tall drinks bottles are a pain yes, definitely get in the way, the cup holders are a bit shallow really. The plastic lid over the cup holders is annoying cheap and nasty too, so scratchy feeling when you open it. Don't get cupholders put you off the car though, not really what its about!

The iPod connector is not standard but I believe is a dealer retro fit that can be added to any Type R.
 
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Very informative thank-you. How much are these Flashpro's? Do you buy them as a consumer or go to a garage that has one? The E-tuning sounds more bespoke, is this not as reliable then? and does it cost every time a turn map is sent?

Also what are you going to get to fill the Vtec's boots?
 
Born_2_Kill_83 said:
Very informative thank-you. How much are these Flashpro's? Do you buy them as a consumer or go to a garage that has one? The E-tuning sounds more bespoke, is this not as reliable then? and does it cost every time a turn map is sent?

Also what are you going to get to fill the Vtec's boots?
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Flashpro handsets are about £600. To use it you have to lock it to the car, so it can only be used with that specific vehicle. If you want to use one, you have to buy one. You can reset the car to stock, and unlock it from the car, they sell second hand for 4-500 quid so you recoup much of your outlay.

For e tuning you pay a mapper up front and you then get largely unlimited revisions until the mapper is happy its as good as he can get (as judged by datalogs) or until you as the driver are happy. Most then offer a lower fee for a retune if you add extra mods and come back to them for a tweaked map. So you dont pay per revision, you pay fpr a tailored map for your car and mods.

The e tune method vs dyno tuning method is a huge argument that could go on all day, in an ideal world to get the 'perfect' map youd use both, ultimately e tuning tends to work out much cheaper and there are some very very good mappers out there offering this service now.
 
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All this seems a lot of money compared to if you had a VXR or a Leon say, £350 quid gets you massive gains. I guess we're talking about 20BHP here?
Guess there is no cheap performance mod's on an FN2.
 
Will said:
I'd offer £8k as a starting point and see what they say. Having a trade in puts you in a far worse negotiating position than a cash only sale though, they'll want to make a nice margin on the car they sell to you, lest they struggle to offload your part-ex vehicle or bang it through an auction at bottom book price...

Ultimately cost to change is the only thing you should look at and try to negotiate around, its the only real figure you should be interested in. Many dealers will start to obfuscate, saying they can't knock any off the car you are buying, as they are already offering too much for your part ex....etc. Others will give you a crap trade in price, but be willing to knock £500 off your car.

They may be able to do more on extras (e.g. if you wanted a service plan, rubber boot protector, roof rack or something else to go with your new purchase).
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Yeah, I know cash/finance I would be in a stronger position to buy. I did see the computer screen on my car when he brought it up, it actually said £6,000, and a trade value of something like £4,700 I think and there was another value for a good condition one for £4850 thereabouts. My car having full toyota service history and relatively lower mileage he puts it at the higher end of the bracket. Either way, it is much higher than the £3200 I got quote from another dealer the other day.

So I am looking at £3,000 plus car as a starting point, will keep reminding them of another car for £8500 and a year younger not far away, and see what they say.

I mean the car is in good condition, has good spec (Sat Nav, ipod, Rage wheels), I just hope it's not a lemon underneath the bonnet.
 
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Born_2_Kill_83 said:
All this seems a lot of money compared to if you had a VXR or a Leon say, £350 quid gets you massive gains. I guess we're talking about 20BHP here?
Guess there is no cheap performance mod's on an FN2.
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That's just n/a tuning for you really, bit tough to compare it to a turbo car...no cheap gains. You can build some properly powerful hondas but only if you add forced induction.

Sticking n/a you can go mad i suppose (if you really really wanted to) and build a 310bhp forged/cammed k24 and map it with flashpro but it would cost twice as much as an fn2 would to start with!
 
Rage wheels are awful, it's well known on the owners forum. They ride VERY Harshly, even the Stock 18" wheels aren't good. 17s improved the ride on mine,

tbh Raymond, I really don't think the Type R is for you. It's a love hate engine. It loves to be revved, there is no in-between. It's either slow, or making a lot of noise. This can become quite tiring.

I strongly suggest you take one for a test drive, you'll soon see what I mean.
 
Born_2_Kill_83 said:
These car very rarely are under the bonnet. When are you test driving, as it sounds that you haven't?
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Like I said, I got there today on a bank holiday at 4pm so there was only 1 guy around the place, he's not going to close up the dealership to come with me so it'll have to be another week.

TaKeN said:
Rage wheels are awful, it's well known on the owners forum. They ride VERY Harshly, even the Stock 18" wheels aren't good. 17s improved the ride on mine,

tbh Raymond, I really don't think the Type R is for you. It's a love hate engine. It loves to be revved, there is no in-between. It's either slow, or making a lot of noise. This can become quite tiring.

I strongly suggest you take one for a test drive, you'll soon see what I mean.
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Yeah I will, but to be honest, it's not like my Yaris has much toque :p, it needs to be around 4,000rpm (it redline at 6k) to get going. I am used to drop down a gear or 2 when overtaking.

As for the wheels....I could sell them and get some 17" that Andrew has?

Funny thing is when I put the reg into Blackcircle came back with 18" wheels, I guess the last owner replaced them with Rage wheels.
 
Muffin` said:
FAO: AD

This is the one for you

So tight.
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1. It's got funny accord headlights :D
2. There's only a few places I'd trust with one of these engines, that builder ain't one of them.
3. Black seats would be better, faded lemon yellow is a bit fannypack.
4. Gearbox been rebuilt but crunches still..... Hmmm.

Lovely looking car though, a pity he's breaking it!
 
Does any-one have a K&N Panel filter??

I'm looking at getting one and was wondering if there’s -

1) Any Vtec noise increase
2) Any performance increase or BHP?

The reason behind wanting one is I don’t want to run the risk of heat soak. The Mugen induction kit looks pretty much the same as a standard induction kit but with a panel filter, and I don’t want to spend £100's of quids
 
Born_2_Kill_83 said:
he Mugen induction kit looks pretty much the same as a standard induction kit but with a panel filter, and I don’t want to spend £100's of quids
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Mugen box looks similar but its the lower end ducting/scoop section that makes the difference really, rather than the airbox itself....

The mugen airbox vs standard sounds hardly any different though (from inside the car at least, from outside the mugen sounds a bit better/throatier), being a closed off design, I cant see a panel filter doing anything noticable to the sound really.
 
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Will said:
Mugen box looks similar but its the lower end ducting/scoop section that makes the difference really, rather than the airbox itself....

The mugen airbox vs standard sounds hardly any different though (from inside the car at least, from outside the mugen sounds a bit better/throatier), being a closed off design, I cant see a panel filter doing anything noticable to the sound really.
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Can you recommend a filter? Want maxium sound without loosing any power.
 
-Ad- problem is with cars liek that.
No one will pay for it whats its worth. TBH in that condition its 10k integra. And in UK not many people will pay 10k for 15 year old car. As ITR owner myself i would pay that sort of cash cause i love how itr drives.
on other news. My mate picked up stunning RX8
1009698_604524949599612_587240112_o.jpg


After taking it for a spin i would not trade ITR for it. Its like hmm not Crazy enough for me :P

Spec: Year 2004 One owner from new. Full Mazda service history every year including this year at 66k miles Engine rebuild at 55k miles. Bilstein Coilovers, Stoptech Big brake kit. Full HKS exhaust system that sounds epic like its supercharged no joke. Upgraded anti-roll bars. All possible strut bars. Receipts for everything ever done to the car.

My mate that driver rx7 got this for 1500f on auction and when my mate from wales was looking for some japanese sports car got it off him for 2500k. So Both of them winning one made 1k other got awesome rx8 :D
 
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