Type R and VTEC owners

Jonnycoupe said:
... ok.

And? Are you agreeing with the notion?

What ECU. If its Hondata they are effectively tuning the OEM maps anyway, cylinder enrichment, injector voltage correction etc etc is all as Honda themselves set it up as.
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Yes, Hondata.

Gibbo said:
This is true, when I spoke to Sal at Evolve down in London, Andy at Powerstation and Frank at TTFS in the USA and I asked when companies say get your car live dyno tuned, what does it mean.

They all laughed and said you cannot change values in the ECU map "live" to speak whilst running on the dyno because you can't flash the ECU whilst the car is running with new parameters. Of course some cars can have motorsport ECU's that allow such adjustment or of course old cars where adjustments were made with tools and not computers. ;)

What they do is exactly as you just said, do a dyno run with everything monitored, make some changes in the file, re-flash it and re-dyno. They then keep doing this, rinse and repeat until the tune file is perfected. :)

Live dyno tuning is myth on modern cars with ECU's. :)
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So when is the part throttle tune done exactly during this method? My DC5, great as it was WOT, was jerky as hell at times at part throttle. My Evo was exactly the same - till Mase mapped it and spent a good few hours doing all sorts to it on the dyno.
 
S2KIP said:
Yes, Hondata.



So when is the part throttle tune done exactly during this method? My DC5, great as it was WOT, was jerky as hell at times at part throttle. My Evo was exactly the same - till Mase mapped it and spent a good few hours doing all sorts to it on the dyno.
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They do runs at part throttle on the dyno or can see issues from datalogs from road driving. Tuners will request you do two datalogs normally on road, one at WOT in 2nd/3rd and another of 5-10 minutes of driving on a warm engine on how you normally drive along with some idling and of course you should mention any drive issues you have.

But part throttle on the M3 was always good, I went with a new tune as I went to map sensor setup to get OEM driveability/part throttle this was perfect.

The car in fact drove spot on, I was happy, it was the tuner that suggested it could be improved and Andy did say it was rich, so made sense to get it spot on whilst the tuner was willing to live tune it on the dyno and Andy was happy to keep doing the dyno runs whilst the tuner made adjustments to the file. :)

My car was great, until a tuner said 8500rpm is safe. :(
 
Gibbo said:
They do runs at part throttle on the dyno or can see issues from datalogs from road driving. Tuners will request you do two datalogs normally on road, one at WOT in 2nd/3rd and another of 5-10 minutes of driving on a warm engine on how you normally drive along with some idling and of course you should mention any drive issues you have.
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Do you mean eTuning or on a dyno? As on a dyno I've never been asked for datalogs. My current mapper is doing part throttle tuning and the car feels OEM like driving around, nice and smooth.
 
S2KIP said:
Do you mean eTuning or on a dyno? As on a dyno I've never been asked for datalogs. My current mapper is doing part throttle tuning and the car feels OEM like driving around, nice and smooth.
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Both, ideally.

I've never had issues with part throttle though, why would I it is BMW OE throttle tuning. :)

Why can you not just run Honda OE tuning for throttle, though I guess it is never that simple.....
 
If I knew that I would self map it. :p

I'm happy with my decision, there will be internet haters but I am confident that I won't blow up my engine and I will make good power.
 
Gibbo said:
This is true, when I spoke to Sal at Evolve down in London, Andy at Powerstation and Frank at TTFS in the USA and I asked when companies say get your car live dyno tuned, what does it mean.

They all laughed and said you cannot change values in the ECU map "live" to speak whilst running on the dyno because you can't flash the ECU whilst the car is running with new parameters. Of course some cars can have motorsport ECU's that allow such adjustment or of course old cars where adjustments were made with tools and not computers. ;)

What they do is exactly as you just said, do a dyno run with everything monitored, make some changes in the file, re-flash it and re-dyno. They then keep doing this, rinse and repeat until the tune file is perfected. :)

Live dyno tuning is myth on modern cars with ECU's. :)
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Pot boxes are one option.

This allows live changing to the ignition and fuel values that can be stored to the ECU at a push of a button. I built several for DTA systems and are very useful.

Dyno runs don't work tip in values for throttle changes either, this is where the logs may help (showing AFR vs Throttle changes)

Anyway its still difficult to get peak gains - even with throttle bodies, so focus on that VTEC point and much more mid range. MB on S2ki had unichip on an s2000 years ago which made great gains. He now races a 2.2 300hp F20C.

Hondata will also feel like OEM as it's an OEM based system.
 
Gibbo said:
This is true, when I spoke to Sal at Evolve down in London, Andy at Powerstation and Frank at TTFS in the USA and I asked when companies say get your car live dyno tuned, what does it mean.

They all laughed and said you cannot change values in the ECU map "live" to speak whilst running on the dyno because you can't flash the ECU whilst the car is running with new parameters. Of course some cars can have motorsport ECU's that allow such adjustment or of course old cars where adjustments were made with tools and not computers. ;) :)
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Im laughing now? Considering this a VTEC thread ;)

Ive have a ROM emulator that allows live mapping on OEM ECUs from 1989!

Hondata S300 has allow live mapping on OBD1 ECU.

Not sure the case on OBD2 Hondata now, Ill look online. But the usual drop in was the AEM ECU for many years which again allows proper load site mapping.

Basically its a hack/bodge in most instances offered in the aftermarket. We all know OEMs do it properly and they use dynocells.

If i had to explain it then you dont understand it.
If I have to explain any further then you wont understand that.
 
Nistune realtime can do live tuning on Nissan VG/RB/CA/SR engines and probably more. It's nothing new or fancy, and it does get used to it's full potential regularly.
 
Jonnycoupe said:
Yeah exactly my point. It's nothing new, I was tinkering with it in 2002.
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I guess I should have said on the E46 M3 and the tuners I spoke to specialise in BMW and were informing me on E46 where any changes they make are in the file, re-run on dyno and change again and so on.

Maybe a limitation by BMW or the tuners not having the necessary equipment?
 
S2KIP said:
If I knew that I would self map it. :p

I'm happy with my decision, there will be internet haters but I am confident that I won't blow up my engine and I will make good power.
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You'll be very happy when it's finished. The amount he's done and all the happy customers (with no horror stories) say it all, end of.
 
N/A tuning an F20C is always going to be hard, such is the high state of tune from the factory. Not much left on the table really, unlike the k20, Duratec/MZR etc. No surprise to see Chris hasn't gained much but I'm sure it sounds better now when you're giving it stick, and it's his money to spend how he wishes after all...
 
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