UEFA Euro 2012 - Group D - ** spoilers ** (England, France, Sweden, Ukraine)
- Thread starter Robbo
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Soldato
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I thought Italy played great against Spain and should have won if it wasn't for Mario being a complete dud.
Spain had it easy against Ireland, I woulnd't really get too exicted with that performance and say they played their best. It was a training day for them.
Spain don't score much goals in games against a team than can actually defend. They won all 4 knock out games 1-0 during wc10. Which also says they don't concede much in competitive games.
I think England will struggle against either Italy or Spain to be honest. I just think Italy have a better defence and attack. Spain are just masters of possesion.
Are you confusing Parker with Gerrard?
BTW it wasn't me that said Parker had played well, he's just been leagues better than Gerrard.
To be honest I think Henderson would have been.
Neither of them were good, but I thought overall the performance of Parker vs performance of Gerrard, Gerrard was a little better.
Both were guilty of dwelling on the ball too long, too often, sometimes seemingly oblivious to the possibility that a Swedish player might have the cheek to sneak up from behind and take the ball
To be fair a lot of our players were guilty of that. The problem is exacerbated by our formation and lack of movement - often there just aren't enough quick short passes available as an option. Hopefully a change of system to accommodate Rooney will help in the next game, but all the players' minds need to be livelier.
A lot of disappointing individuals vs Sweden, but I must admit for the first time I'm quite alarmed by Terry - he almost looks crocked at times. Sure he's always been slow, but has more than made up for it in other ways. However, Carroll made him look a silly in two games at the end of the season. Puts me in mind of fans joking about "the night Des Walker lost his pace."
Both were guilty of dwelling on the ball too long, too often, sometimes seemingly oblivious to the possibility that a Swedish player might have the cheek to sneak up from behind and take the ball
To be fair a lot of our players were guilty of that. The problem is exacerbated by our formation and lack of movement - often there just aren't enough quick short passes available as an option. Hopefully a change of system to accommodate Rooney will help in the next game, but all the players' minds need to be livelier.A lot of disappointing individuals vs Sweden, but I must admit for the first time I'm quite alarmed by Terry - he almost looks crocked at times. Sure he's always been slow, but has more than made up for it in other ways. However, Carroll made him look a silly in two games at the end of the season. Puts me in mind of fans joking about "the night Des Walker lost his pace."
Fair enough, agree to disagree. I have been pleasantly surprised by Gerrard, Parker has been probably our weak link imo
The question is do you think we will beat ukraine? with our poor play in the second half against sweden we have a lot to show for, Sweden are a pretty average team and as always first 10 minutes England had a solid defence putting pressure on Sweden, then when we scored our first goal it all changes. If we are to beat ukraine we need to put constant pressure on the Opposing team till the 90 minute mark, not just for the first 10mins.
Watching the other teams like spain, i honestly think we have no chance. We have to up our game, passing as much as possible and not to make silly mistakes that will make score a goal.
Watching the other teams like spain, i honestly think we have no chance. We have to up our game, passing as much as possible and not to make silly mistakes that will make score a goal.
gerrard has had a great career but he is far from the player he used to be.
parker has played well and is carrying gerrard. he's carrying gerrard because parker isn't an outlet, he's a battler who passes to an outlet (usually modric) gerrard is supposed to be the outlet but he isn't being that.
he's played a few decent balls (carroll's goal being one of them) but he's not showing the required leadership. his positioning is bad and he doesn't get stuck in enough if he doesn't want to do anything else than be the central creative dynamo. he's fast becoming like beckham, dead ball and pinging balls, great, everything else, not so great.
parker had a great shot against sweden (wow! you might say) the point is, parker doesn't really and isn't used to being in such positions to shoot. that should be gerrards role.
Caporegime
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The problem with that chart as always is new and useless stats.
Imagine this, someone is about to put a shot on target, Parker throws himself at the ball, blocks the shot, stops a goal, now think how many times does the player who a shot bounces off and is still sliding across the floor, get up and get to the ball that has often rebounded 20+ yards away? The answer is very very few, a chart that talks about regaining posession is useless. Parker blocks a shot and Gerrard, who didnt' slide in to block it has an infinitely better chance of actually getting to that ball(or anyone else) now that regained possession stat goes to Gerrard, and not Parker, despite Parker making the crucial block.
Parker has made more blocks than anyone else, he's closed more people down, and he's been far better. I'd also again ask people to before they comment on a stat know EXACTLY how its decided, because so many stats aren't, does a block where for instance the ball hits Parker, but it rebounds to an opposition player count as an instance of losing the ball? It probably doesn't, but it might, stats are subjective, two different people watching a game noting the stats will get the same number of corners, but one person thinks one tackle is a 50/50, while another person thinks its a bog standard tackle and puts the same stat down elsewhere. One person could decide Parker lost the ball, while another thinks its just a block, one could decide the player who picks up a loose ball has "regained" possession, another person might decide the ball is loose and there is no stat there at all.
The "big" stats are easier to get right, and can be used a whole lot more. Basically every single chart I see of two random stats that people could easily simply get wrong, becomes worthless too me. Firstly we have no idea if that chart is accurate, secondly, we don't know what situations the chart includes, thirdly, I watched the game. Parker has done more defensively than anyone else on the team.Think to a situation where a player moves towards Parker, he gets in their way, forces them to slow, turn around, change direction of forces them to make a pass they don't want to make, that pass is bad, and goes to Gerrard. Who "won" the ball, who forced the loss of possession..... but who gets that particular stat?
As someone said Gerrard has been a passenger for large portions of the game. Sure delivery when under little pressure is superb, the problem is he's been in position to deliver those balls for maybe 20 seconds total in the whole tournament. He's always had exceptional delivery he's an attacking player, defensively he's never been great and trying to repackage an attacking midfielder into someone who sits back gets you someone exactly as useless as Carrick, stands around, people easily run past him, he's not great at reading the game defensively and his useful passing is 30 yards to far back than it should be.
As for Parkers distribution, its a laughable joke, people have been saying all year that Parker only does defensive work and never goes forwards, its complete rubbish. At West Ham he went forwards just not a huge amount, he scored great goals and his passing forwards is very good.
Over 2-3 games stats are almost useless, a striker who misses 11 in 11 shots should not start the 3rd game, a guy with 70% pass completion of 80%, over 2 games, is irrelevant. Over 40 games its a fairly useful(but still over rated) stat, over 2 games, you could be talking about 3 missed passes.
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Spot on, at what he does he does very well but in the grand scheme of things he's fairly limited.
What's the opinion of Welbeck now then? Prior to his England games he was rubbish (or so said the majority) what about now???.....
I genouniely think parker was one of the best CM's in the league this year, he disrupts play and gets posession back. He's not going to ping a pass like xavi but he's more than capable to keep the ball (Im a big fan of the parker turn, so simple yet effective)
He's not 100% fit and is one of the players we need to have a great performance from every game, which in my opinion he could do if fully fit. Gerrard is also not match fit and to a degree parker is carrying him, as stated before parker is having to do allot more creative play than he is used to.
On a more positive note ashley cole could set a record
I cannot find the BBC article currently which is a pain, but they had a bit about our win % without the Rooney/Welbeck partnership and I think it was about 33% without Welbeck and over 60% when they played together.
They link up pretty well.
I thought this would be the likely line up, but I think I've seen a few people say they think Carroll will get the nod following Roy saying Welbeck needs using sensible.
I'd prefer to have Carroll as an option off the bench, as I would with Walcott and Ox. I'm just pleased Downing hasn't been looked at at all.
he's played ok and scored a very important goal. the most important thing is he has been given a chance and proved he has no fear. i'm still far far from convinced. one crucial goal cannot lead to a fair and accurate judgement overall.