Poll: UEFA Euro 2020 Final Italy v England ** spoilers ** [Sunday 11th July 2021]

[Shamikebab]

I’m puzzled as to why people are having a pop at Saka.

Did he play worse than the likes of Grealish or Kane last night?

I thought he was really poor last night, but then so was Sterling. Grealish barely played so won't judge him and by that point we'd parked the bus. Kane has been poor most of the tournament.

 

[The_One]

They beat Spain and Belgium at least 2 big tests

and took penaltys to beat england so where does that rank england against belgium and spain in your great logic

you chat rubbish

 

[Slam62]

Last night Saka was very poor. Second best, not winning the ball back not doing much with it. The run of games leading to yesterday though he was fantastic so it was worthy of a sub imo.

Kane did some okay hold up work but the lads at the back mullered him like most teams have tried all tournament.

Yeah nice lad etc but not the right occasion, not sure what Kane actually does most of the time tbh, Stirling was good but does too much.
In all I just think Kane was a dead weight most of the time his skill seems to be falling over. Phillips was OK just but hasn't got that killer bit of skill and hence a journeyman. Mount would have been brilliant alongside Rashford and Grealish. Shaw obviously pulled his weight as did walker and the rest at the back.
Yeah so our attack was none existent after the goal.

 

[Robbo]

I don't think anyone can deny that after 20 mins we basically sat back and had no intent. We have a younger, fresher team, too, who had played less minutes.

It's really quite simple, if you play defensively aiming to get penalties, you should be on the hook for a penalty loss.

 

[Mekrel]

Proud of the team regardless of what happened last night. It's frustrating we only turned up for a quarter of the game, and we didn't seem to make any changes when you could clearly see the Italians were dominating possession and position. I wonder what Trippier was saying to Southgate after he came off and at the end of the game.

I would like to say that I can't believe there's racist abuse being directed at Rashford, Sancho and Saka - but unfortunately, I expected this would happen based on what we've seen in recent times. It's a shame the beautiful game is blighted by ignorant "fans".

 

[Quinnaay]

I don't think anyone can deny that after 20 mins we basically sat back and had no intent. We have a younger, fresher team, too, who had played less minutes.

It's really quite simple, if you play defensively aiming to get penalties, you should be on the hook for a penalty loss.

That's been the English way for as long as I can remember and it's never served us well.

 

[Robbo]

That's been the English way for as long as I can remember and it's never served us well.

It would be understandable if you're an underdog, but we were only an underdog in mentality - thanks to the manager - we could have run rings around the Italian team and put them to the sword if we'd tried.

 

[FoxEye]

I don't think anyone can deny that after 20 mins we basically sat back and had no intent. We have a younger, fresher team, too, who had played less minutes.

It's really quite simple, if you play defensively aiming to get penalties, you should be on the hook for a penalty loss.

They always say "Leave nothing on the pitch and have no regrets."

What would have happened if we'd actually gone for it? Grealish playing in normal time, having attacking intent and trying to put the game to bed.

Italy were rattled early on. You saw them angry at each other.

Then we sat back and let them control the game. Let them get comfortable. Let them have time on the ball, to find their range and settle down, to start playing their game.

And whilst England had no possession, they were increasingly uncomfortable when they did have the ball.

This is everything that's wrong with a defence-first approach. More to the point, we've seen England fail to defend a lead how many times now? Why is nobody learning from that?

So yeah... what could have been, if only we'd dared to try.

 

[Pigeon_Killer]

I'm wondering how much influence Southgate's experience in 96 had on the penalty takers last night. We've heard all tournament how the most important thing was not conceding, we've also heard players talk about practising their walk from the halfway line to take a penalty all tournament.

If you give the players that much time to think about taking a penalty, the pressure on them would've been building for weeks. Add the occasion, the fact most of the country would've been watching and only brining on two players with the sole intention of taking a penalty, it's a recipe for disaster.

 

[DrToffnar]

Spain didn't win there group and had an easy group. Then got to a semi beating Croatia who we beat and Switzerland who we would have beat.

Denmark, Croatia, Germany are all fantastic teams that we beat. Your talking Nonsense.

Agreed. All games on the international stage often take place in a bottle where numbers on a spread sheet come to nothing. The best teams can be pressured and bullied by on form average sides, that's what makes it such entertaining Football to watch. We didn't play our best last night and our game management was off. The better team one on the night. It's as simple as that. We'll try again next year with a bunch of young, talented and now blooded players and a management team that have hopefully learnt some lessons.

Considering how strict the Prem are about international training sessions it's a miracle we managed to put a team together that where able to carry any sort of game plan off at all.

 

[Quinnaay]

It would be understandable if you're an underdog, but we were only an underdog in mentality - thanks to the manager - we could have run rings around the Italian team and put them to the sword if we'd tried.

It's upsetting. We had the perfect start and cushion, they had to attack we drew them out and did nothing with it. We could have been pressing back and countering. A second goal was game over. Such a shame so many ifs and buts.

 

[manic111]

Spain didn't win there group and had an easy group. Then got to a semi beating Croatia who we beat and Switzerland who we would have beat.

Denmark, Croatia, Germany are all fantastic teams that we beat. Your talking Nonsense.

And the Czechs gave teams a real game this year and we didn't look in any danger against them

 

[FoxEye]

I'm wondering how much influence Southgate's experience in 96 had on the penalty takers last night. We've heard all tournament how the most important thing was not conceding, we've also heard players talk about practising their walk from the halfway line to take a penalty all tournament.

If you give the players that much time to think about taking a penalty, the pressure on them would've been building for weeks. Add the occasion, the fact most of the country would've been watching and only brining on two players with the sole intention of taking a penalty, it's a recipe for disaster.

Does anyone remember one of the earlier interview with Sterling after a game?

He'd scored as I recall, and the interviewer asked him about his goal and the game. Sterling said something like, "Obviously the most important thing is not to concede."

And I thought, "This is the effect Southgate is having on our strikers. They don't want to talk about scoring goals, they want to talk about not conceding goals. This is all wrong."

 

[Psycho Sonny]

and took penaltys to beat england so where does that rank england against belgium and spain in your great logic

you chat rubbish

Anyone can win a bounce game. If the best team won every game then what would be the point of watching.

The point is England had an easy run in with only 1 real test. Spain not topping their group means nothing they had a poor start but we're getting better with each game. The Italy - Spain game was the real final.

It was a pretty boring euros and no not because England got to the final but because hardly anyone turned up. France, Belgium and Germany were no shows. Spain awful at the beginning. Netherlands were poor. A lot of teams underperformed allowing others like Denmark and England to over achieve.

 

[Shamikebab]

And the Czechs gave teams a real game this year and we didn't look in any danger against them

Not really, they beat a ten man Netherlands team but apart from that they looked nothing special apart from Schick.

 

[RobHu]

Knockout football can deceive. Unlike a league format, where England would finish up largely where the deserve to be. You know, each team playing every other team twice.

In a knockout tournament, your "progress" through the tournament can be as much about which half of the draw you were in.

Ultimately, in the WC and in the Euros, performance is the only way to judge imho. Ignore the results and judge 100% on the performance.

This is Southgate. The team might be improving/maturing/etc. But Southgate isn't learning, isn't changing. He is and always will be a super defensive manager with a tactic of turtling instead of going out to hurt the other teams by scoring.

In league format England would finish where they deserve to be yes - somewhere near the top.

This 'easy draw' stuff is a bit of a meme really - in this tournament England didn't have a particularly easy or difficult draw. We beat 3 top 10 teams on the european ranking and narrowly lost to another. All that matters is the end result.

Southgate is a defensive manager sure. That's not necessarily a bad thing though as tournaments have been won by defensive teams before. As I said what worries me is the manner in which we've tried to see out these games in consecutive tournaments. IMO both times if we just continued playing our game we'd have had a better chance. We had a real shot at being able to punish them last night on the counter in the second half and instead chose to defend deep and play hoofball.

Isn’t that down to the players winning in spite of him rather than because of him? I’m sure he’d be long gone by now if he had a poor squad.

We can't possibly know that unless we develop some sort of perfect real world simulation where we can try out different managers at the same time . What if his prowess in pulling the team together extracts more performance than a more tactically astute coach would?

 

[DrToffnar]

It was a pretty boring euros and no not because England got to the final but because hardly anyone turned up. France, Belgium and Germany were no shows. Spain awful at the beginning. Netherlands were poor. A lot of teams underperformed allowing others like Denmark and England to over achieve.

I'd say it was one of the more entertaining tournaments precisely because some of those teams didn't do as well as expected.

 

[FoxEye]

We can't possibly know that unless we develop some sort of perfect real world simulation where we can try out different managers at the same time . What if his prowess in pulling the team together extracts more performance than a more tactically astute coach would?

He certainly isn't building the confidence of players like Grealish who he chooses not to play. Or building confidence in our strikers who he keeps on a tight leash so they can track back and defend

Sure he might be their best mate in the dressing room, but they should be "together" and motivated by themselves. It's the Euros/WC. You shouldn't need your manager to pull the team together or motivate them, that should be a given.

I'm sorry but Southgate lives or dies by his tactics, and he's a bad tactician.

 

[beachBOYken]

I’m puzzled as to why people are having a pop at Saka.

Did he play worse than the likes of Grealish or Kane last night?

Completely agree, he had some good games, last night he didn't, but then most of the team didn't perform apart from the defence who have been pretty much rock solid throughout the tournament, if I remember he made the goal for Sterling in one of the previous matches. I thought Mount was far worse, he was virtually invisible last night.

 

[Tombstone]

I don't think anyone can deny that after 20 mins we basically sat back and had no intent. We have a younger, fresher team, too, who had played less minutes.

It's really quite simple, if you play defensively aiming to get penalties, you should be on the hook for a penalty loss.

This really. We managed 2 shots on target in 120mins. 2.

Thats not how you win a final. We had them on the rack early on and should have pressed that advantage, we had pace, youth, fitness and imo actually better players on an individual basis. If Southgate had been willing to take the leash off I dont think it would have even gone to extra time.