Agreed.
Poll: UEFA Euro 2020 Final Italy v England ** spoilers ** [Sunday 11th July 2021]
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Agreed.
Yes I was sceptical of Maguire due to fitness concerns but he was absolutely excellent in every game he played. Pickford fantastic in the shoot out.
So Southgate sent up Saka over Grealish, surely the latter would have been better by any measure you can think of.
Grealish strikes me as the kind of player who would have just smashed it past their keeper with one worries. Same for Shaw.
Probably would have won had the right penalty takers been chosen
i was thinking last night who I would have listed from the players and Grealish, Henderson (if still on), Philips, Stones, Shaw, all would have been above Saka.
Soldato
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Sure it was built on what was seen during the prep work of pens in training technique, technique when fatigued, phycology assessments of players and thoughts when asked. I won't link to the story about penalties again as either no one is interested or people think its crap
For me its not down to luck we lose more than we win on pens I'd agree with that summary probably the most balanced I've read in this thread. Still gutted myself about the result but hey ho life goes on.
He probably wanted to play, too. Didn't get much opportunity for that either. Gareth doesn't trust attack-minded players tho. Gotta defend first, last and foremost. Defend at 1-0, defend at 1-1, defend at 0-5. Defend for Britain! It's the (only) Southgate way.
I like Henderson as a player but I'd never give him a pen lol. Especially not after his warmup match miss. The others I agree with though bar maybe Stones.
FAT CHANCE. We'll crash out Roy style in a group with proper teams in it and then everyone can finally see this mess for what it is. Inflexibility to adapt as the circumstances require. We should crowdfund a placement to Sandhurst for him so he can get some teaching in why a good military commander adapts on the fly. The old adage, "no plan survives contact with the enemy" etc.FOOTBALL: England manager Gareth Southgate says he wants to lead the team to the 2022 World Cup
Ok, so the morning afer the night before. Here is my thoughts for what its worth (probably not much 
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I think overall we had a good team.
But I'm afraid to say the buck stops at Southgate. I think the team were good on the field despite some of his decisions.
I looked at the replies to my Saka question. But I still say from looking at his performances in this tournament for England it should have been obvious he's one of those players who don't perform as well at international level as he does at club level. Most of the time when he was on the ball it was taken off him. At international level he's either not matured enough yet, or he's being played out of position. The alternative to him was Trippier who as been playing well all tournament. The quality dropped in the area were Saka was in each game.
Southgate not changing the formation quick enough when we could all see that Italy were bombarding us with shots. We still only had 3 defenders, until I think around half time (or at half time) and he changed the formation to 4 at the back, which re-ignited us to go forward again.
Also what is with the substitute of a substitute? He did it in both the finals and the previous match. He brings one guy on then takes him off soon after. A waste of a substitute.
We know Southgate chose the penelty takers. He didn't give the players a choice on the day. Looking at some of his substitutes in this game its obvious he had pre-picked the players for penelties and used his substitutes to bring on those players. Sancho coming on at 120 minutes. Then the double substitution of Rice for Henderson at 74 minutes, then he substituted Henderson for Rashford at 120.
It seems Southgate was more about forcing his tactics on the game instead of reading and reacting to it.
).I think overall we had a good team.
But I'm afraid to say the buck stops at Southgate. I think the team were good on the field despite some of his decisions.
I looked at the replies to my Saka question. But I still say from looking at his performances in this tournament for England it should have been obvious he's one of those players who don't perform as well at international level as he does at club level. Most of the time when he was on the ball it was taken off him. At international level he's either not matured enough yet, or he's being played out of position. The alternative to him was Trippier who as been playing well all tournament. The quality dropped in the area were Saka was in each game.
Southgate not changing the formation quick enough when we could all see that Italy were bombarding us with shots. We still only had 3 defenders, until I think around half time (or at half time) and he changed the formation to 4 at the back, which re-ignited us to go forward again.
Also what is with the substitute of a substitute? He did it in both the finals and the previous match. He brings one guy on then takes him off soon after. A waste of a substitute.
We know Southgate chose the penelty takers. He didn't give the players a choice on the day. Looking at some of his substitutes in this game its obvious he had pre-picked the players for penelties and used his substitutes to bring on those players. Sancho coming on at 120 minutes. Then the double substitution of Rice for Henderson at 74 minutes, then he substituted Henderson for Rashford at 120.
It seems Southgate was more about forcing his tactics on the game instead of reading and reacting to it.
I guess it depends how you define success. I certainly don’t think England have failed.
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It's as if we're living in a world where a Man United vs Liverpool Champions League final could end with the players and both sets of fans laughing and hugging each other. It's only a game after all :vomit:
In sport, there's only ever one winner, the rest are losers. The best learn from defeat and become winners, the rest accept defeat and never succeed.
Hopefully Southgate and the players learn from this, become better as individuals and a team and succeed in a future tournament but public acceptance isn't going to help them achieve that imo.
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Just resign yourself to it. There's too many in the "best England manager, ever" camp right now.
They will need something like what you describe to realise Southgate is actually quite poor.
Hopefully he doesn't luck out with an easy run next time. Hopefully we have to beat the likes of Italy, Spain, Brazil to get to the final (or crash out).
At some point after Southgate refuses to learn anything from his mistakes, and proves beyond a doubt that he only has the one game plan (turtle), people will stop thinking he's some kind of tactical genius.
There are plenty of other sports where fans hug each other at the end and even get along - Rugby springs to mind. I don't see that so much in football (with the fans at least), which is a terrible shame.
While I agree I think that is doing him a disservice - his presence was disruptive for the other team when England generally aren't - and the odds were working out in our favour even though he not infrequently lost the ball. Backed up by the more experienced Trippier playing behind him seemed like a fairly decent setup. I think Trippier was struggling with some fitness issues though hence not played as much as otherwise might have been.
Caporegime
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I’m puzzled as to why people are having a pop at Saka.
Did he play worse than the likes of Grealish or Kane last night?
Did he play worse than the likes of Grealish or Kane last night?
Not if you watch both of those games.
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