Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

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scorza said:
Depends on your definition of propaganda I guess, if you include in it independent journalism subject to editorial scrutiny then yes I'm certainly guilty of posting links to such material. I've been careful not to post anything I consider possible pro-Kiev propaganda such as Kyivpost or Euromaidan - anything that could be considered the equivalent of Russia Today basically. Frankly anyone who posts an RT link presenting it as fact is doing the Kremlin's work for them, so the label Putinista fits.



That was only a prediction and I'm still of the opinion that it was an accurate one. Someone is supplying, organising and co-ordinating the pro-Russia militias (yes militias because when you acquire the capability of shooting down helicopter gunships and capturing enemy special forces you're no longer mere protestors) and I suggest that Russia is the only actor in theatre with the means and motivation for doing so. The fact that this view is not only shared by the UK and US foreign ministers but also the head of NATO lends further credence.
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Nobody apart from RT was reporting these facts, it's only after he was killed did western media suddenly started acknowledging that he is one of the leaders of Right Sector.

As for "putinista", it's always good when ignorant people like you accuse others of something they are not, highlights the point that once again, just like in Zethor case, you two have nothing behind you apart from logical fallacies.

As for militia, the NYT lie that that they had to remove and their investigation turned out to show no Russian forces involvement at all.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/04/w...-in-ukraine-many-faces-of-rebellion.html?_r=0

NYT owned up to their mistake, you and zethor have not, so keep on lying to find your worldview and calling those who correct you "putinist", as was mentioned it only makes you look worse. :rolleyes:

Edit: I forgot that you like black and white fallacy so much, so I have to put a disclamer, I too suspect Russian invelement in the eastern ukraine on some level (intelligence) but I wouldn't have the audacity to say it is without a doubt Russia like you two do, and I already addressed that equipment they have is avaliable in Ukraine, there is no need to Russian support here and we already have Kiyv confirmation of soldiers defecting to Donetsk republic, so keep on lying Scorza, whatever makes you and your second account happy.
 
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Nerusy said:
Nobody apart from RT was reporting these facts, it's only after he was killed did western media suddenly started acknowledging that he is one of the leaders of Right Sector.

As for "putinista", it's always good when ignorant people like you accuse others of something they are not, highlights the point that once again, just like in Zethor case, you two have nothing behind you apart from logical fallacies.

As for militia, the NYT lie that that they had to remove and their investigation turned out to show no Russian forces involvement at all.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/04/w...-in-ukraine-many-faces-of-rebellion.html?_r=0

NYT owned up to their mistake, you and zethor have not, so keep on lying to find your worldview and calling those who correct you "putinist", as was mentioned it only makes you look worse. :rolleyes:
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I have no idea to what you're referring to with either the NYT article or the right sector leader. Your constant portrayal of the Kiev regime as right-sector Nazis is inaccurate and tiresome yet you keep beating the drum with the same shill enthusiasm reminiscent of Lord Haw-Haw. Yes the fascists in the Ukrainian parliament are a concern but frankly I'm more concerned about the fascists in the Kremlin.

As an aside, journalists are people and therefore subject to making mistakes and sometimes have to apologise and correct them. How many apologies and corrections have Russia Today broadcast for its inaccurate reporting?
 
scorza said:
I have no idea to what you're referring to with either the NYT article or the right sector leader. Your constant portrayal of the Kiev regime as right-sector Nazis is inaccurate and tiresome yet you keep beating the drum with the same shill enthusiasm reminiscent of Lord Haw-Haw. Yes the fascists in the Ukrainian parliament are a concern but frankly I'm more concerned about the fascists in the Kremlin.

As an aside, journalists are people and therefore subject to making mistakes and sometimes have to apologise and correct them. How many apologies and corrections have Russia Today broadcast for its inaccurate reporting?
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Yet another logiacal fallacy? At least this time it's a strawman! I never said Kiyv government is nazi, you lier. I said Right sector played a key role in securing the government change and I showed facts that 5 ministers of Svoboda at the time were part of the interim government and at the same time I stressed that Russia media is overplaying nazi involvement. The main point was you nazi apologists tried to lie that nationalists were not involved at all and I forced you lier to acknowledge them.

As for media, my argument is not RT vs Western Media, my argument is ALL media is bias and therefore EVERYBODY should apply critical analysis of everything they read. Also just because BBC has flaws and highly biased does not mean it should be disregarded, it is in fact one of my main sources of information.

BBC never owned up to their mistakes, NYT did but that is because they lied, BBC just conceals, overestimates or underestimates the truth just like RT does. Why would I need to show that RT owned up to their lies if I don't read it, in fact I was never shown any facts that RT lies, nazi play overestimation, sure, but just like BBC that's biased reporting rather than flat out lies on the line of NYT.

Scroza, every time you reply to me it's always a logical fallacy of something I did not say in the first place, you need to start reading otherwise this is just laughable. :D
 
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Nerusy said:
Yet another logiacal fallacy? At least this time it's a strawman! I never said Kiyv government is nazi, you lier. I said Right sector played a key role in securing the government change and I showed facts that 5 ministers of Svoboda at the time were part of the interim government and at the same time I stressed that Russia media is overplaying nazi involvement. The main point was you nazi apologists tried to lie that nationalists were not involved at all and I forced you lier to acknowledge them.
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You don't think that calling me a "nazi apologist" when all I've done is defend the right to self determination for the people of Ukraine might create a misleading impression in people's minds about the sort of people I'm supporting? Thank goodness you're so impartial and unbiased.

I don't believe I've ever read you stating that Russian media is overplaying nazi involvement either. Though I confess I ignore most of your posts.

Nerusy said:
As for media, my argument is not RT vs Western Media, my argument is ALL media is bias and therefore EVERYBODY should apply critical analysis of everything they read.
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Another half-truth, journalists are people and so it's impossible to write free of bias - that does not mean that all bias is equal. No-one would ever claim the western media as perfect but it is diverse in its ownership and editorship

Nerusy said:
BBC never owned up to their mistakes, NYT did but that is because they lied, BBC just conceals, overestimates or underestimates the truth just like RT does. Why would I need to show that RT owned up to their lies if I don't read it, in fact I was never shown any facts that RT lies, nazi play overestimation, sure, but just like BBC that's biased reporting rather than flat out lies on the line of NYT.
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What mistakes? How are you so sure the NYT lied? You are aware of the difference between lying and being mistaken aren't you?

Nerusy said:
Scroza, every time you reply to me it's always a logical fallacy of something I did not say in the first place, you need to start reading otherwise this is just laughable. :D
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I'm glad you find it all so funny. Frankly I find it extremely difficult to take someone arrogant enough to state "I already told you that I have been monitoring the situation from the start very closely and I forgive your naive view on the situation and will continue providing evidence" seriously.
 
scorza said:
You don't think that calling me a "nazi apologist" when all I've done is defend the right to self determination for the people of Ukraine might create a misleading impression in people's minds about the sort of people I'm supporting? Thank goodness you're so impartial and unbiased.

I don't believe I've ever read you stating that Russian media is overplaying nazi involvement either. Though I confess I ignore most of your posts.



Another half-truth, journalists are people and so it's impossible to write free of bias - that does not mean that all bias is equal. No-one would ever claim the western media as perfect but it is diverse in its ownership and editorship



What mistakes? How are you so sure the NYT lied? You are aware of the difference between lying and being mistaken aren't you?



I'm glad you find it all so funny. Frankly I find it extremely difficult to take someone arrogant enough to state "I already told you that I have been monitoring the situation from the start very closely and I forgive your naive view on the situation and will continue providing evidence" seriously.
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Keep on lying. You denied right sector was involved in government overthrowing. :rolleyes:

So you bash RT all day long and call everybody putinist and can't provide a single evidence of RT lying? Good show buddy.

And I find it difficult to take you seriously Scorza because almost everything you say is discredited as farce it is.

I did teach you to link sources, you did start linking them after I called you out and I thought you were going to improve but you fell right back into logically fallacies and calling people "putnist". Sad of you but as I said, I will continue calling out your lies and providing information to further this discussion, no matter how much you lie.

Edit: You have to admit I am far more aware of the situation than you, you thought that Forbes opinion was legitimate, you don't seem to know what NYT article we're talking about and you admitted you don't read my post, which makes sense since you use strawman on me all the time. :D
 
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Nerusy said:
You accused me multiple times without a quote, I don't see why I should go an extra mile. :rolleyes:
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Sigh - why can you never be specific? Accuse you of what? Being a Putinista? Odd that you've also defended the Russian establishment over Pussy Riot (Source) - interesting that this post implies you aren't a British citizen (as you're an expert of course). Where are you from? Your English is very good but it doesn't quite flow as it would if you were a native speaker.
 
scorza said:
Sigh - why can you never be specific? Accuse you of what? Being a Putinista? Odd that you've also defended the Russian establishment over Pussy Riot (Source) - interesting that this post implies you aren't a British citizen (as you're an expert of course). Where are you from? Your English is very good but it doesn't quite flow as it would if you were a native speaker.
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Oh wow I have my first stalker, that's fantastic. I like that you throw yet another accusation at me because I called out that poster who suddenly became an expert in how foreign authorities act, you can also point out that I called him out on his lie about the paycheck too, not that it will help your cause as I back up my arguments with sources. I did not claim to be an expert on that topic, just that he should stop acting like he is.

Odd that you've also defended the Russian establishment over Pussy Riot
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This is yet another Scorza lie by the way, my quarrel in that topic was about police brutality and a member of this forum being condescending towards another member, never did I defend cossacks whipping the girls.
 
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Nerusy said:
Oh wow I have my first stalker, that's fantastic. I like that you throw yet another accusation at me because I called out that poster who suddenly became an expert in how foreign authorities act, you can also point out that I called him out on his lie about the paycheck too, not that it will help your cause as I back up my arguments with sources. I did not claim to be an expert on that topic, just that he should stop acting like he is.
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Don't flatter yourself, searching poster history is a simple task on this forum. I note you didn't answer the question.
 
scorza said:
Don't flatter yourself, searching poster history is a simple task on this forum. I note you didn't answer the question.
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I will flatter myself if you take your time to stalk my past comments, why would I answer your question when you ignored my questions countless times, I suggest you keep stalking my past comment history and find for yourself. ;)
 
The readers' editor on… pro-Russia trolling below the line on Ukraine stories
Guardian moderators, who deal with 40,000 comments a day, believe there is an orchestrated pro-Kremlin campaign

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/may/04/pro-russia-trolls-ukraine-guardian-online

Russia's Media Trolls

http://www.forbes.com/sites/peterhimler/2014/05/06/russias-media-trolls/

The trolls need to sell their story to the papers- how they were hired, what were their orders, etc. Would make an interesting read :)
 
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I doubt it is organised pro Russian groups most Brits are incensed at the revelation that our press follow the foreign/defence office line rather than being independent as was first blatantly exhibited in the Georgian tie eaters attack on Russia where our media lied consistently and now in the Ukraine pustch, god knows what the truth was in relation to our attacks on Iraq and Afghanistan, it's this state of affairs that leads to the discord in the comment sections.
 
http://www.pewglobal.org/2014/05/08...rnance-ukrainians-want-to-remain-one-country/

Decent report into Ukrainian opinions on borders, separatism, EU/Russia etc.

Despite Concerns about Governance, Ukrainians Want to Remain One Country

A clear majority of Ukrainians agree that their country should remain a single, unified state, according to a pair of new surveys conducted by the Pew Research Center in Ukraine and Russia – after Crimea’s annexation by Russia, but prior to recent violence in Odessa and other cities. The survey in Ukraine also finds a clearly negative reaction to the role Russia is playing in the country. By contrast, the poll in Russia reveals a public that firmly backs Vladimir Putin and Crimea’s secession from Ukraine.
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Wow, do scorza and nersuy have day jobs? Some serious arguing going on in this thread! Who needs a civil war when you have got these two at logger heads.
 
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