Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

[Nerusy]

I have never done this, in fact it prove you just can't look past the fake old 'Fascists' story line Russian Media uses and abuses.



whut? ok it started out ok your backing down a little, then you went off base like to Mars dude.

How do you know they won't be punnished? Broad brush statement.

Yes I hope anyone who crossed the line that day gets caught and punnished

Shock horror, relax maybe Nazi moonbases don't exist and they are not under the artic ice maybe they havent taken over the Ukraine too. A possiblilty yes?

Dude you accuse me of being BNP,Nazi,Right Sector, justifier of murder and worst of all a Daily Mail subscriber just because I don't agree with you. And you call me Naive

How do I know? Remember that MP that beat up CEO of TV channel and forced said CEO to resign, couple month later those MPs are still MPs, TV channel has new CEO appointed by allies of the MP who did the beating.

Also so far no arrest of anybody who openly shot, threw Molotov's or beat those who jumped even though police was there. Also all pro ruski protestors got jailed after escaping fiery death, no arrest for maidan activists.

As for yourself, you're just another ignorant poster who labels everybody who doesn't share your biased view as putinist, you're not the first such juvenile here and probably not last.

 

[Nulir]

Buhahah that's rich coming from someone who screams bloody murder when I correct your propagandistic misinformation.

You need to be prepared and accept you might be wrong. Do this and then come to a 'likely conclusion' I am willing to review my conclusions at any stage, all the information is out there. I think you are just plain immovable no matter what the evidence or what has happened.

I don't think anyone who is undecided can go through everything on BOTH sides of the media and eyewitness pictures and videos and come to your stuck in the mud point of view of the situation.
Therefore for you It sounds ideological and or political

Crimea anyone

 

[Nerusy]

You need to be prepared and accept you might be wrong. Do this and then come to a 'likely conclusion' I am willing to review my conclusions at any stage, all the information is out there. I think you are just plain immovable no matter what the evidence or what has happened.

I don't think anyone who is undecided can go through everything on BOTH sides of the media and eyewitness pictures and videos and come to your stuck in the mud point of view of the situation.
Therefore for you It sounds ideological and or political

Crimea anyone

Is that why you went psycho when I pointed your souces were lying with regard to the RPG and ukrsnian authority pictures that by now even NYT apologised for as propaganda? Buhahahha, your hypocricy is overtaking Scorza!

 

[thep02]

I really think the CIA/Western agencies should have thought this through a bit more before financing the coup to displace Yanukovich.

The entire mess we are seeing now is down to the US/EU trouble-makers.

Agreed.

 

[ubersonic]

Just saw the BBC news and I have to say I am actually impressed at how unbiased their coverage was, they were still referring to the pro-Russians are terrorists and separatists however they broadcast footage of the Ukrainian army's attack on Mariupol police HQ and didn't attempt to paint the national guard as the good guys, they openly showed that the public were all opposed to them being there and quite vocal about it, they even showed them shooting over civilians heads to prevent form being mobbed. They didn't mention that the "separatists" holding the police HQ were actually the police themselves, but they didn't try and hide the fact that the national guard set fire to the police HQ before retreating so it couldn't be re-occupied either.

 

[areksnumbr1sxylady]

http://albertonardelli.tumblr.com/post/83217046292/dissecting-public-opinion-in-east-ukraine

More opinion poll analysis undermining the arguments of the pro-Russia militants in eastern Ukraine.

From same link;

So we can now safely say that the government is illegitimate hence they are terrorists since they have no support whatsoever yet they seized power.

This means, fighters in Slovianks are "Freedom Fighters" and the Ukranian army are truly "terrorists"

Awkward.

74.5% say Ukraine and Russia should be two independent states with open borders and without visas,

Right, so the "Pro-EU" move is widely supported by the population then.

e It Didn't take long Looks like they even forgot to remove their Telnyashka's first, oh dear.

Well that convinced me really.... First class evidence...

I think Ukranian Millitary are all Russian too since they are using Ak-74`s, Russian APC`s and Millitary Helicoptres

 

[scorza]

From same link;

...

So we can now safely say that the government is illegitimate hence they are terrorists since they have no support whatsoever yet they seized power.

This means, fighters in Slovianks are "Freedom Fighters" and the Ukranian army are truly "terrorists"

Awkward.

I'm not sure how you can analyse that poll and come to that conclusion. The poll was conducted exclusively in eastern Ukraine, we know from other polls in other parts of the country that the Kiev government enjoys considerably more support. I think the apparent divide in opinion between east and west Ukraine is a real concern and sadly it seems like it's too late to try and do anything about it now

 

[areksnumbr1sxylady]

I think the apparent divide in opinion between east and west Ukraine is a real concern and sadly it seems like it's too late to try and do anything about it now

Well who`s fault is that??? Russia`s? Or maybe the new government which refused to take into account the "Pro-Russian" views in half of their country?

Instead calling them separatist and terrorists and shooting them? It is clear that the Ukranian Government stance that Eastern Ukraine is invaded by "terrorists" and local population is held hostage in their cities under guns doesnt stick anymore.

As far as I know, in Eastern Ukraine these "terrorists" never asked Russia to annex them, all they want is federalization and possible sending of Russians peace-keepers to prevent the onslaught that is going on.

As I said previously, everything the "interim" government has done is to alienate Pro-Russian population which makes up nearly half of their country. All they are doing now, instead of seeking negotiation is call everyone who is against Regime a Terrorist and shoot on sight. Ukranian government said they refuse ALL Talks with "terrorists"

They even signed the EU-Association deal before the elections, what if a Pro-Russian president would have won the elections?? See, they didn't even bother thinking about that, its as if they already know who is going to win and what is going to happen. As far as I am aware, there isnt even a single Pro-Russian candidate for presidency since most have been made death-threats to and forced to pull out of the elections.

What outcome are they exactly expecting from all this in eastern-Ukraine, a place which is strongly Pro-Russian??? I mean a 2 year old can conclude that after all these actions the people would be deeply upset and angry.

What would happen if we banned SNP tomorrow and called them Separatist??? Pass a law in London saying that Scottish Accent is no longer acceptable and then start calling them all terrorists and shoot them if they take up arms and set-up road blocks on border of Scotland? Then we would say that its all Icelands fault, since they escalated the whole region. We would also say that we have no intention of dialogue since everyone in Scotland is a terrorist and should be eradicated.

Then we will go to UN and cry that bloody muslamics or something took over Scotland and made it all angry for no apparent reason.

 

[scorza]

Well who`s fault is that??? Russia`s? Or maybe the new government which refused to take into account the "Pro-Russian" views in half of their country?

...

I think the Kiev government made mistakes but it's clear that Russia has been stoking the fires in eastern Ukraine with its continuous vile propaganda that has increased paranoia and tension over Kiev regime being fascists when they aren't.

 

[ubersonic]

I think this is the real problem:


The scenario as told by the Kiev government and the western media/governments:

Pro-EU lot: Want Ukraine to be a united sovereign nation, with membership of the EU
Pro-Russian lot: Want Ukraine or the east of it at least to join the Russian federation, they are all terrorists/separatists.


The reality:

Pro-EU lot: Want Ukraine to be a united sovereign nation, with membership of the EU
Pro-Russian lot: Want Ukraine to be a united sovereign nation, with close ties to Russia and greater regional autonomy.


That's why it's headed to civil war.

 

[areksnumbr1sxylady]

I think the Kiev government made mistakes but it's clear that Russia has been stoking the fires in eastern Ukraine with its continuous vile propaganda that has increased paranoia and tension over Kiev regime being fascists when they aren't.

Well they are certainly behaving like ones?? Would a "democratic" government completely ignore view-points of around 40% of countries population and just do exact opposite of what they want?

Would "Democratic" government call "terrorists" and eradicate its citizens who deeply disagree with its governments policy, mind you... There is a lot of them, this isnt some 20 people.

Would Democratic government try to remove a language which nearly everyone speaks in more than half of the country?

Would Democratic government sign EU association deal, way before general elections?

Would Democratic government openly use far right a.k.a fascists militia to aid them in power?

Would Democratic government, isolate and kick out a political party which were against their viewpoints out of Government and propose complete ban of it?

It is clear that there is very deep divisions within Ukraine, any decent democratic government would at least propose voting on Federalization.

In fact, can you tell me 1 thing the Interim government has done which can be considered Democratic and representative of general population of Ukraine?

 

[thep02]

Well they are certainly behaving like ones?? Would a "democratic" government completely ignore view-points of around 40% of countries population and just do exact opposite of what they want?

Would "Democratic" government call "terrorists" and eradicate its citizens who deeply disagree with its governments policy, mind you... There is a lot of them, this isnt some 20 people.

Would Democratic government try to remove a language which nearly everyone speaks in more than half of the country?

Would Democratic government sign EU association deal, way before general elections?

Would Democratic government openly use far right a.k.a fascists militia to aid them in power?

Would Democratic government, isolate and kick out a political party which were against their viewpoints out of Government and propose complete ban of it?

It is clear that there is very deep divisions within Ukraine, any decent democratic government would at least propose voting on Federalization.

In fact, can you tell me 1 thing the Interim government has done which can be considered Democratic and representative of general population of Ukraine?

Easy NO! Criminal Nazis would though in all cases.

 

[Danny75]

Kiev has cut the water supply to Crimea, while refusing to pay the gas debt to Russia (who is still supplying gas to them, without payment...).

The hypocrisy in just about everything that the US/EU/Kiev are doing is absolutely stunning. Claims of Russian interference in the east, while the head of the CIA visits Kiev to meet its leaders and hundreds of CIA agents are operating within Ukraine, according to a German report.

Self-determination should always trump "territorial integrity" when the cost of maintaining territorial integrity becomes the taking of countless lives. Those willing to give up their lives to defend their way of life and culture. For ****'s sake, there's even grannies confronting tanks now. Let's get real. These aren't terrorists. Nobody is setting bombs in Kiev, they are just defending their own homeland in the east.

Separate the West and East before its too late. Not like the US and others haven't done exactly that in the past with other countries, when it suited them.

 

[areksnumbr1sxylady]

Kiev has cut the water supply to Crimea, while refusing to pay the gas debt to Russia (who is still supplying gas to them, without payment...).

The hypocrisy in just about everything that the US/EU/Kiev are doing is absolutely stunning. Claims of Russian interference in the east, while the head of the CIA visits Kiev to meet its leaders and hundreds of CIA agents are operating within Ukraine, according to a German report.

Self-determination should always trump "territorial integrity" when the cost of maintaining territorial integrity becomes the taking of countless lives. Those willing to give up their lives to defend their way of life and culture. For ****'s sake, there's even grannies confronting tanks now. Let's get real. These aren't terrorists. Nobody is setting bombs in Kiev, they are just defending their own homeland in the east.

Separate the West and East before its too late. Not like the US and others haven't done exactly that in the past with other countries, when it suited them.

Hypocrisy is massive, however, I believe Crimea shouldn't have been annexed to Russia...

I believe that in worst case, West/East should have been divided into independent states via referendum with observers from all over the world observing the process.

Then if East wanted to join Russia... Again, a fair referendum should have been held.... But I assume there would be much more chances that the East Ukraine would be similar to Belarus.

All of this went to **** as you can see and we are on path to civil war...

UN is just a useless, corrupt organization. It seems countries like Syria/ukraine are just pawns on a big chess board between "big-boys"

 

[Zethor]

The hypocrisy in just about everything that the US/EU/Kiev are doing is absolutely stunning. Claims of Russian interference in the east, while the head of the CIA visits Kiev to meet its leaders and hundreds of CIA agents are operating within Ukraine, according to a German report.

LOL. Ease up on those mushrooms, my friend, they are bad for your health.

Self-determination should always trump "territorial integrity" when the cost of maintaining territorial integrity becomes the taking of countless lives.

no one was killed or hurt in Crimeea before the Russian army invaded, what are you rambling about?

Those willing to give up their lives to defend their way of life and culture. For ****'s sake, there's even grannies confronting tanks now. Let's get real. These aren't terrorists. Nobody is setting bombs in Kiev, they are just defending their own homeland in the east.

Yea, grannies shot down 3 military helicopters and they're fighting military units across several cities. Amazing really, all they do in the UK is to whine about their cost of living and the NHS.

Separate the West and East before its too late. Not like the US and others haven't done exactly that in the past with other countries, when it suited them.

How do you know Ukrainians want to be separated? Did you miss the part where Russia invaded Crimeea, organised a fake referendum and annexed it?

 

[areksnumbr1sxylady]

Russian army fighting in Slovyanks = World known fact, telnyashkas says it all.

Western intelligence in Ukraine = Looool, ease on the shrooms boy!!!


Saddam didnt have Chemical Weapons = Loool, shrooms!!.... oh he didnt?....

British Soldiers in Libya = Loool, Shrooms!!... SAS surrendered to local farmers....

Government gathering its civilians information = Loool,Shrooms!! Tin-Foil hat!!!..... Oh, NSA???

Big Pharma bribing doctors = Tin foil hat!!! Shrooms!!!..... oh GsK incident?


List just goes on really doesnt it....

 

[Danny75]

Below, some shrooms for my dear friend Zethor so he can also enjoy. Maybe in return for the favour, he will stop blatantly and ridiculously misconstruing what I'm saying, so we can have an intelligent conversation instead, but I won't hold my breath.

Berlin (AFP) - Dozens of specialists from the US Central Intelligence Agency and Federal Bureau of Investigation are advising the Ukrainian government, a German newspaper reported Sunday.

Citing unnamed German security sources, Bild am Sonntag said the CIA and FBI agents were helping Kiev end the rebellion in the east of Ukraine and set up a functioning security structure.

It said the agents were not directly involved in fighting with pro-Russian militants. "Their activity is limited to the capital Kiev," the paper said.

The FBI agents are also helping the Kiev government fight organised crime, it added.

http://news.yahoo.com/cia-fbi-agents-advising-ukraine-government-report-101508429.html

I left the organised crime assertion in the quotation especially for you, Zethor, so you can latch onto it if you wish.

And here's the brave granny, lobbing a tire in front of a tank, as best she can, on 22 seconds into the vid - http://www.itv.com/news/update/2014-05-09/residents-halt-ukrainian-tank-in-mariupol/

Welcome to reality.

 

[ThestigGT999]

US blames Russia as Kiev unleashes armored vehicles against civilians



“Well, we condemn the outbreak of violence caused by pro-Russia separatists this morning in Mariupol, which has resulted in multiple deaths,” she said.

spin doctor much Jen Psaki wow

 

[Borsch]

Ukraine 's revolutionaries have certainly tainted their image I have to say. Not distancing themselves from the minority nationalists during maidan, then repelling russian language law (admittedly restoring it afterwards) and now using force in towns that have a sizeable minority of opposition against them. A string of stupid decisions. A proper honest referendum in the east would have eased all the nationalist worries, embracing the Russian population, not fighting it with rhetoric and weapons... But now, the only hope is for presidential elections to change the current idiots in power.

Look at this mess:

 

[Borsch]

Well that convinced me really.... First class evidence...

I think Ukranian Millitary are all Russian too since they are using Ak-74`s, Russian APC`s and Millitary Helicoptres

It is first class evidence for fact that shooters in Odessa were pro-russian if not russian. You can see "georgian band"

on some of the people who were together with the shooters.