Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

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SarGara said:
So all this came about because Russians were butt hurt about Ukraine wanting stronger ties with Europe, and yet its exactly because of this unofficial invasion that now the majority of Ukraine have a grudge to bear and will strive even harder for NATO and EU. Yep that should do it!
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They were more disturbed by the overthrow of the legitimate democratically elected Ukrainian government with a pro-EU/western one, only a few member states have ever being given a vote on EU membership so why should the people of Ukraine be given the choice?

Putin gives his view of it here in the first 10mins:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0stuDpk318
 
There will be no ceasefire while Russia keeps sending in it's forces into Eastern Ukraine, IMO this was more likely an effort to stop the fighting while Russia could reinforce its positions in the East and make the push to Maruipol.

You have to wonder what's going on with the rest of Ukrainian army, even with the reinforcements from Russia Ukraine has 400,000 active service personal, 60,000 national guards plus outsiders and 'Right Sector' militants (an embarrassment if you ask me but needs must I guess), plenty of tanks and an Airforce. My g/f (she's Ukrainian) told me the other day that she read an article were Poroshenko was going to replace top level commanders in army, poor leadership might explain why such a large army has been relativity ineffectual against a much smaller force.
 
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Freddie1980 said:
There will be no ceasefire while Russia keeps sending in it's forces into Eastern Ukraine, IMO this was more likely an effort to stop the fighting while Russia could reinforce its positions in the East and make the push to Maruipol.

You have to wonder what's going on with the rest of Ukrainian army, even with the reinforcements from Russia Ukraine has 400,000 active service personal, 60,000 national guards plus outsiders and 'Right Sector' militants (an embarrassment if you ask me but needs must I guess), plenty of tanks and an Airforce. My g/f (she's Ukrainian) told me the other day that she read an article were Poroshenko was going to replace top level commanders in army, poor leadership might explain why such a large army has been relativity ineffectual against a much smaller force.
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Would have though the obvious answer would be if they used their full might against the rebels they would get utterly tonked by Russia for "using it'a army against it own people".
 
Freddie1980 said:
You have to wonder what's going on with the rest of Ukrainian army, even with the reinforcements from Russia Ukraine has 400,000 active service personal, 60,000 national guards plus outsiders and 'Right Sector' militants (an embarrassment if you ask me but needs must I guess), plenty of tanks and an Airforce.
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My guess is that the new president is attempting to use just enough force to beat the rebels but not too much. After all it wouldn't be a very good message to start your presidency with: "Hi everyone, I'm your new leader who's replacing the old dictator type who had rioters shot, don't worry I'm really nice and I'm going to fix the country, but first everyone go to the east to kill your fellow countrymen because they don't obey me!" It wouldn't look good.

As for the air force it is in a major state of dis-repair, the only stuff that can bother the rebels is Su-25 ground attack, Su-24 bombers and Mi-24 gunships of which only 20-30 of each are air worthy, and according to reports Ukraine has lost 20 assorted aircraft since this started.

However it appears they are planning to re-invest in the air force to get it running again:

In 2014, the air force announced that it will be bringing back 68 aircraft that have been in reserve since the collapse of the Soviet Union, including the Tupolev Tu-141 reconnaissance drone.
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^^ Going by the incident reports Ukraine has lost 2/3rds of its serviceable Mi-24s and SU-25s since this started (not all to enemy action), no idea on the bombers.
 
Its tough one for Ukraine, If they use there full might and lunch a massive campaign the Russians will use the excuse of a large army is to close to the Russian boarder or claim they are being attacked. Mean while if they try and control the rebels and Russia forces the best they can, Russia will be able to keep forces and supplies coming in, At least that's my view based on my poor knowledge as I haven't seen any of this with my own eyes (the only source some people accept :p )

I guess Ukraine are hoping for maybe Nato/America to step In and help at some point. But I'm not sure what stage of events would allow for this to happen. Given the current number of events that have happened it would take something big to happen I guess.
 
Werewolf said:
It depends on the troops in question, where they are at the time and what the Ukrainian army is doing.
I'm guessing that the Ukranian army is probably split quite heavily between fighting the "separatists" in the active area, trying to contain them in other areas, and maintain their border and prevent further Russian troops taking their tanks and other armoured vehicles on a vacation.

1000 troops is quite a large number, especially if they're properly trained and fully equipped including armour if your force is expecting to meet 1000 less armed opposition, and for that armed opposition to be (as I think was the case) running low on heavy weapons, little armour and short on ammo.

The unexpected appearance of a few hundred fully trained and equipped troops at the right (wrong?) time has turned the tide of a lot of battles in the past.
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But Ukraine's military must surely be 100,000s strong. They don't need much if any presence in the west since it boards EU countries, so most could be moved to the war zone.
 
And the Ukraine prime minister.

Ukraine's prime minister has rejected Putin's proposals for peace in Ukraine, saying they were an attempt to deceive the West on the eve of a Nato summit and to avoid new sanctions against Moscow.

"The real plan of Putin is to destroy Ukraine and to restore the Soviet Union," Arseny Yatseniuk said in a statement.

"All previous agreements made with Russia - in Geneva, in Normandy, in Berlin and in Minsk - were ignored or brazenly violated by the Russian regime," he said.
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So the president of Ukraine comes up with a deal, Putin takes it to the rebels who ignore it and when the president gets back his PM says no too. Why does Ukraine even have a president? he seems very useless lol
 
ubersonic said:
So the president of Ukraine comes up with a deal, Putin takes it to the rebels who ignore it and when the president gets back his PM says no too. Why does Ukraine even have a president? he seems very useless lol
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Putin never took it to the rebels, the rebels do what he tells them to. The timing of this with the start of the NATO conference in Newport makes me think this is all a distraction.
 
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scorza said:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-29052599

Holy ****! France to delay delivery of Mistral-class helicopter carrier to Russia. I guess the west has finally woken up and some serious sanctions are incoming if the French have given in on this issue.
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"french government uses Ukrainian situation to cover production delays of new helicopter carrier without incurring heavy breach of contract fines for the company."

tbh.
 
They pretty much have to give them the first one. It's pretty much completed, the russians own half the ship as half was made by them before being finished by the french, the crew are already waiting to take delivery and they've already paid. Plus, the kicker is if they truly did find a pair and didn't give it to them, with the type of ship it is no one else would buy it and the french have no use for it themselves.
 
I saw the mistrals in St nazaire when I was there a couple of months ago - lots of Russian dudes in town too - a relative helped build them :)

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