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Scorza throwing personal insults since he cant say anything worth-wile on the topic 
Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar
- Thread starter areksnumbr1sxylady
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I dont understand why should I go to Moscow? It would make sense for me to either be in London or Washington DC explaining that this is not the way to drive putin out of power
I do not deny Russian involvement in the Ukraine, but I keep saying that there was and is genuine support for Russians in Donbass and Crimea and this is due to failures of Ukraine government I listed above.
Crimean population genuinely supported Russian annexation and this was majorly due to failures of Ukraine government. Now that Crimeans look at Donbass, they support their decision even further...
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Soldato
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Yes, Russia could not keep up with American spending and it's people wanted material goods. Russia and America worked together on common causes, usually intelligence on various groups. There was talk of the 'peace dividend', diverting the massive military budget into civil projects. The military industrial complex fought via the Republicans and you have an aggressive stance towards the Chinese, Russians and anybody they don't like. If they cannot do it themselves they get via proxy as in the case of Libya.
Had America really been wanting a new era they would not have continued expanding eastward. The missile batteries put in the old Soviet era countries only reinforced those elements within Russia who opposed any détente.
It only shows the US was not interested in creating a new relationship or more likely those paid politicians of the military industrial complex put paid to any form of peace. As for religious fundamentalism we are also going through American Christian religious fundamentalism.
You are obviously forgetting or ignoring that there is a large section of the EU against, especially at this time, sanctions that are hurting EU countries. America is not bothered though it looses nothing as opposed to European countries.
Soldato
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I dont understand why should I go to Moscow? It would make sense for me to either be in London or Washington DC explaining that this is not the way to drive putin out of power
I do not deny Russian involvement in the Ukraine, but I keep saying that there was and is genuine support for Russians in Donbass and Crimea and this is due to failures of Ukraine government I listed above.
I'm glad you say that but just because there's support for Russia in those parts of the Ukraine does not give permission for Russia to anxieted said parts of the Ukraine. It should have been a matter for the people of Ukraine first, party’s setup etc. and then a agreed referendum on separation in a not to dissimilar manner to how the Scottish indepenance was handled.
Then if/when independent only then Russia should be involved as it would be a matter of a now independent nation if they wanted to join the russian federation and if the russian federation wanted them.
In short if this was about making the east and Crimea "independent" how it went about was not the way.
Nice in theory, however Crimea tried to gain independence following the fall of the USSR and was slapped into line by Kiev who then deposed it's president and reduced it's autonomy.
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Again, it is failure of Ukranian government, they made the people in the South and East think as if they will never get a chance to do anything.
I keep saying, do you think the whole situation in Donbass would be happening if the government said, lets have a vote on federalisation let alone becoming independant?
Instead they laughed off the whole idea, do you expect people to have faith in such government for then on a later date to give them chance to decide whether they will join Russia or not.
As I shown in my previous posts, Ukranian government through its actions showed it has no respect for the Russian population of Ukraine constantly, did you expect the Russians in Ukraine to sit quietly and obide, and hope that sometime in the future, somehow, they will be given a chance to speak... While their schools/books/language being banned?
USA declared a war on England just cause of taxes, they didnt like that... In Ukraine peoples culture and way of life is at very risk from the government and you expect them to sit quietly and endure?
To Russians in Ukraine the pro-EU, Pro-Nazi history government policies is no different to how we`d feel if sharia law was imposed on us in UK. Would we just sit tight and hold on while the extremists would give us a right of voice and self-determination??
How would you feel if tomorrow, London was taken over by 3-4 million Islamists who overthrew Westminster and got into power and then started making and passing extremist laws? Then, when lets say Wales says they are not having none of that, we start calling them terrorists and bombing them.
Would you sit quietly and wait for a peaceful referendum which would allow me to keep my values? Or call up USA and beg for them to annex you?
I am sure that al-queeda and boko haram would make speeches and support the new pro-islamist UK... Just as whole western world does for Ukraine...
This sounds totally absurd but this is about how your average Russian-Ukranian views the whole situation.
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The Republicans are aggressive towards authoritarian regimes that don't have good financial relations with the US, yes. So what? The Chinese ignore them and they continue to grow and invest. Why can't Russia do the same? What's the point of attacking neighbours and making land grabs? If anything, that proves the American Republicans are right to be aggressive...
Wake up. America didn't expand anywhere nor did it force anyone to do anything. The Nato countries are indepedant democracies, they can ally themselves with anyone they want and install whatever defenses they want and there's not a thing Russia can or should do about it. no one tells Russia where to put its missile batteries and who its allies should be.
The former communist countries can join any alliance they wish. What exactly is so complicated about this very simply fact? The Soviet Union is gone. Russia is not a superpower anymore, it cannot and should not dictate what other countries do.
The EU countries may feel a bit of a sting due to the sanctions (Russia tourism/trade accounts for a very small percentage of the EU total) but they cannot ignore that 1. Russia is run by an authoritarian government ; 2. Russia is making land grabs in the 21 century, something most people believed belongs in the history books.
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1) NATO has expanded into post soviet-territory when actually after the dissolution of soviet union it promised not to.
2) NATO members are not allowed to install any defences they want, they cannot have non-nato bases in their country.
3) NATO members are deeply encouraged to arm themselves only with NATO equipment and NATO ammunition.
4) Russia wanted to put its in Nukes in Cuba sometime ago, that worked well.... I am sure it wont even make news if Russia decides to deploy S-400 on Cuba along with few radars that would be able to scan whole USA. No issues.
I dont know about you, but if Russia deploys S-400 tomorrow on Cuba, I wont be exactly happy... Why should they be happy with Patriot missiles in Poland and other countries near them?
Is it because we are considered good guys who rain democracies on countries such as Libya who are bathing in sunshine and unicorns of democracy as we speak?
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Soldato
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Its sad if that's the case but still it gives Russia no right to just roll in as they did would you not agree.
1. Free countries, free to join any alliance they wish.
2. They are free to leave NATO at any time and install as many non-Nato bases as they wish. I repeat - free countries.
3. So?
4. Do you live under a rock? Cuba is not a Russian ally, it has recently started warming up to the US...
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/c...malization-could-mean-boosted-tourism-n288996
The weaponry Americans deploy in Poland concern the US and Poland. It's not Russia's business.
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Russians did not roll in just like that, referendum in Crimea was accurate with the numbers that supported Russia...
Given the situation that the new Ukranian government imposed on the country, what Russia has done was far more ethical in real world.
Referendum was held which allowed people of Crimea to make their choice what they wanted to be, even though referendum wasnt acknowledged by western countries, many will tell you that the vast majority of Crimean population supported russian annexation... A lot more than the mesely 10% gap in the referendum of scotland.
Actually I don't, the overwhelming majority of the people wanted reunification with Russia, the new pro-EU/anti-Russia government in Crimea would have made this impossible, it was a golden opportunity for Crimea to get what it wanted, don't forget, they did vote on this, and despite what the western media want to imply nobody found anything dodgy with the voting (Some complained the were armed guards outside some polling station, but they were outside not inside so couldn't have influenced the vote), hell western observers were even invited to watch the voting process but sadly none felt like attending (convenient if you already plan to complain about the outcome you know is coming).
For Crimea it had been a long 24 years under Ukrainian rule, but they had finally achieved the reunification with Russia they had dreamed of.
So if a bunch of EDL members move in to a house next to a mosque and start making/stockpiling petrol bombs, that shouldn't concern the mosque as it's none of their business?
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Oh dear....
Lets rephrase that from historical point of view.
The weaponry Soviet Union deployed in Cuba, concern USSR and Cuba. Its not US business.
Wish you were at the time Zethor.
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Your examples have nothing to do with the issue at hand. Russia feels threatened and I was wondering what that threat is. Patriot missiles aren't a threat, nor are US military bases, hell will freeze over before the US invades a country with the nuclear capabilities of Russia. So, again, describe the exact nature of the threat Russia is perceiving. Furthermore, explain why China isn't feeling threatened by the US military bases on its borders (Japan and South Korea) but Russia is.
Scorza throwing personal insults since he cant say anything worth-wile on the topic
It just means happy amirite? How is it an insult?
Soldato
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The Republicans are aggressive to anyone who does not want the American idea of Govt, full stop. The Chinese can ignore them because they can create massive financial headaches to the US due to the massive amount of US debt they own. The Russians do not have the same financial leverage as they depend too much on oil and gas. The Chinese deal for oil and gas may change that once the pipelines are constructed.
I roared with laughter when Kerry
America's game plan. I wonder what he called his own country's invasions, including British Grenada.
You are incredibly naïve. There are more ways to get countries to do what you tell them than invading them. The Dutch empire was built on trade. The American empire, like the British before them is built on military and trade. Blockade of Cuba. Totally illegal. America's trade blackmail(they have the biggest market) includes trade sanctions(duties, other forms of tax barriers)
Compliant nations get 'most favoured nation' status. Looking at history do you really think the US does not use trade to force nations to comply with it's wishes?
NATO was formed as the anti-Soviet bloc military alliance. It is the de facto American empires military wing. There is no Soviet Bloc so the military industrial complex needs to find enemies to justify the massive spend. There are too many who seem to view the world via the inane American 'good guy-bad guy' dichotomy.
At the present time the UK especially needs all the trade it can get and a bloc of the EU agree.
OMFG How many authoritarian regimes does the UK/EU trade with at the moment???????? Get real!!
Unbelievable!! You are regurgitating the Kerry line, do try to use the internet and find out how the US behaves in the world.
That can be a big problem though. Argentina invaded the Falklands for that very reason. I'm worried that we're pushing Russia into a corner and they're (especially Putin) too proud to just take it on the chin. At what point do they say enough is enough and push back? Are they going to let their economy completely collapse AND have Ukraine join NATO without a fight? Doesn't seem likely to me.
Economic threat. The USA have muscled their way into Ukraine, they have started an economic war against Russia and have recently started supplying weapons to the Kiev regime.
China has developed the worlds first 'anti ship ballistic missile', its rumoured to be designed to take out a really big aircraft carrier...
Soldato
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What weapons are those? There was a bill passed which would enable the US to sell militray arms to Ukraine but the only official assistance I've seen is a retraining program of Ukraines regular forces. Certainly Ukraine could do with some tasty western tech the impression I get from reading all the facebook posts and tweets is their artillery pieces aren't accurate enough for their needs.
The missile defence shield gives the first strike USA a much better attempt at stopping what little remains of Russias second strike ability, pretty much all the mds does is give a first striker a better chance of surviving the retaliatory strike.
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