Caporegime
Russia becomes second country in Europe to impose sanctions on itself.
Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar
- Thread starter areksnumbr1sxylady
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Russia becomes second country in Europe to impose sanctions on itself.
Soldato
Stugna going hard in Ukraine!
Soldato
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Because russia wasn't perceived as a threat back then? The post-cold war glow effect, cold war is over soviet union is finished its all over now... right?
Germany had Ostpolitik i.e. normalising relations with russia which has lead to the pickle they're in now which means they can't just turn off the pipeline without crippling the economy but its directly funding Putin's war machine to the tune of billions every day
Russia: "Don't join NATO or there will be military consequences"
Finland: "So what will happen if we don't join?"
Russia: "We'll invade you anyway"
Finland": "Ok so... so thats a done deal then"
Russia: "...we didn't think that through, did we?"
*US Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin Holds a Briefing - https://youtu.be/iPiTs95LGNY
*US Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin: Had Great Discussions With Allies About Ukraine
*US Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin: Gathering to Become Monthly Contact Group on Ukraine
*US Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin: Group Will Coordinate on Ukraine’s Self-Defense
*US Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin: Still Looking At Cause For Violence In Moldova
*US Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin: Talk Of Nuclear War Is Dangerous And Unhelpful
*US Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin: It Is Significant That Germany Will Provide 50 Gepard Heavy Weapons Systems
*US Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin: Want To Make It Harder For Russia To Threaten Neighbors
*US Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin: Coming Weeks Will Be Crucial For Ukraine
*US Secretary of State Blinken Testifies at Senate Budget Hearing – https://youtu.be/0LXbk7Bhbhw
*US Secretary of State Blinken: Supplemental Request for Ukraine Coming Shortly
*US Secretary of State Blinken: He Discussed With Ukrainian President Zelenskiy What They Need to Fight Russia Going Forward
*US Secretary of State Blinken: US and Ukraine ‘Largely Aligned’ in What Ukraine Needs and What US Can Provide
*US Secretary of State Blinken: US Continues to Believe Getting Back Into Agreement Is Best Path on Iran Nuclear
*US Secretary of State Blinken: Russians Are Feeling Effects of Putin’s Ukraine War
*US Secretary of State Blinken: US Sending Diplomats Back to Ukraine This Week
*US Secretary of State Blinken: Working to Have US Embassy in Kyiv Reopened
*US Secretary of State Blinken: Diplomats Will Go Back to Lviv, Then Assess How to Securely Open Embassy in Kyiv
*US Secretary of State Blinken: He Will Speak Publicly In Coming Weeks About National Security Strategy Related To China
*US Secretary of State Blinken: Europe Has "Genuinely Ambitious" Plans To Move Away From Reliance On Russian Energy
*US Secretary of State Blinken: Progress Is Likely in Coming Weeks on Oil Side of the Equation in Terms of Russian Imports
*US Secretary of State Blinken: Will Focus ‘Relentlessly’ on Sanctions Evasion
*US Secretary of State Blinken: US Has Engaged With Some Countries To Dissuade Them From Increasing Their Energy Purchases From Russia
*US Secretary of State Blinken: There Is “Increasingly Deep Skepticism” Among European Countries Over China Response to Russia’s Invasion Of Ukraine
*US Secretary of State Blinken: US Has Seen No Sign Yet That Putin Is Serious About Meaningful Negotiations On Ukraine
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Soldato
Soldato
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You're forgetting both the power of propaganda and the lack of any information from outside Putin is trying to hermetically seal russians off from anything other than what he's feeding them and succeding quite well by all accounts, that and the lack of any dissent which is swiftly stifled the police even check people's phones regularly to see if there anything antiwar/anti-russia/pro west/ukraine you'll get hauled off and bundled into the back of unmarked vans if so, fate unknown
Its Putin/FSB picking up on western anxieties and plucking on that particular string... and clearly its working, its reading from the standard notebook of disinformation,dissemble,disrupt and sow discord in its enemies
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Caporegime
Wechseln durch Handeln. The idea that the way to build lasting peace was by building trade links wasn't exactly a uniquely German idea, it was widely shared by Western governments, and - to be fair - it had worked well in Western Europe. "No two countries with McDonalds have ever attacked each other" was true until it wasn't. What confuses me is why it took this second, larger, phase of the Ukrainian invasion for the West to realise it. The war in Georgia, the annexation of Crimea, as well as acts like the Salisbury poisoning should surely have produced more of a reaction.
Associate
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I think this sums up the Wests policy on Crimea:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSXIetP5iak
I'm surprised we didn't do the same this time.
Soldato
Keep in mind that these things happened when we were still had huge amounts of resources dedicated to the likes of Afghanistan, plus the emergence of ISIS/ISIL and whatnot. I feel there was no real appetite to get tangled up in something else and strech already over-burdened forces, NATO forces had pretty much been on contant operational footing for almost 15 years at that point. There just wasnt any public or political desire to get involved. Also lets not forget the shower of **** that was the Libya conflict at the time...
Soldato
Yes, for some reason, the fact that Russia deployed a nerve agent on UK soil and murdered an innocent UK citizen in the process seems to have been swept under the rug and into the memory hole.
Soldato
Whilst there are few more practical reasons given above, I think the biggest reason was the collective leadership of "the West" were seemingly unwilling to face reality as their own world view was too skewed towards "If we're nice then Russia will come around and behave" when the reality was vastly different. I think they just didn't want to "see" the problem because it was too big and scary to realise a Cold War v2.0 had started (according to the Russians anyway).
I think that this lack of will-power from our collective leadership, at the time, to recognise that these unpleasant things Russia was doing needed punishing, rather than trying to sweep them under the carpet to keep everyone happy with ineffective "slaps on the wrists", has now directly led to this situation in the Ukraine.
Caporegime
Yup. And we got lucky: there was enough agent to kill two thousand people in that vial.
Agreed. Appeasement doesn't work.
Soldato
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The other issue is the West has a short term view of everything they think of the war as being something won/lost in a matter of weeks because thats how thing are here politicians only think of the upcoming local elections next month, or in a couple of years when there'll probably be a new PM here and a new POTUS over there.
Russians think long term they're in no hurry they can afford to dig in, build up their numbers consolidate, then push forward inch by inch, mile by mile, obliterating everything in their path, Putins not going anywhere anytime soon nor is the political stagnation in the country the only thing against him is his age and reputed poor health he might want to see a "victory" not too far in the future (theres also the issue of logistics and supply) but its a long term aim, Russia has been annexing territory for centuries
Soldato
Yeah I do feel in hindsight the West failed to read the situation quite badly. We have massively underestimated how far down the rabbit hole Russia really was.
*Poland Says Has Sufficient Gas in Storage, Supplies — Ministry
*Poland Says Its Gas Storages Filled to 76% of Capacity
*Permanent Mission of Russia to the UN: Russia Will Do Everything It Can to Ensure the Safety of Ukraine’s Nuclear Facilities
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Soldato
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Think it's a case of the mistakes of the past inc failure to do something possibly out of fear of dealing with Russia, have now been realised. In hindsight, sure, should have acted much, much sooner.
*Russia’s Gazprom: It Has Not Suspended Gas Supplies To Poland
*Russia’s Gazprom: Poland Has to Pay for Gas on Tuesday in Line With New Payment Schedule
*U.S, UK Trade Officials Agree to Meet Again in June in Boston to Continue Trade Dialogue- Joint Statement
*U.S, UK Agree to Develop ‘Ambitious Road Map’ for Outcomes on Digital Trade, Supporting Small, Medium-Sized Businesses, Strengthening Supply Chains
*U.S, UK Officials: Ready to Increase Economic Pressure on Russia to End War in Ukraine
Soldato
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Reaction to the poisonings at least were that friendly relations with russia ceased and a large number of "diplomats" were expelled from the embassy somethiing thats only recently occurred with other european countries, relations with russia have been frosty to hostile ever since, from what I remember we were beating the drum against russia but not many were listening.
More could and should have been done against russian money I'll agree and its not just oligarchs I got a glimpse into it when I used to know someone with a russian wife and the ex pat community had not only wives and spouses but a fair number of what she described as mafiosi, criminal money laundering operations buying up property et al for the investment value even met one of them once, not a pleasant experience
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